When A 777A Retires........
09-07-2015 | 10:25 AM
#111
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,249
Likes: 707
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
With respect to OE recovery, I posted this a couple weeks ago in the SLC Capt rep resigns thread. Applicable here:
Recovery:
It must include the following or NFW:
1. Drop trip paid 100%
2. Assigned Trip paid 100%
3. Assigned trip must fall in the footprint of the original trip, premium pay for anything outside.
4. Positive space to/from new trip
5. In base lodging provided if needed for assigned trip
This would give them the productivity they so desire and also benefit the pilot being removed for OE.
Recovery:
It must include the following or NFW:
1. Drop trip paid 100%
2. Assigned Trip paid 100%
3. Assigned trip must fall in the footprint of the original trip, premium pay for anything outside.
4. Positive space to/from new trip
5. In base lodging provided if needed for assigned trip
This would give them the productivity they so desire and also benefit the pilot being removed for OE.
09-07-2015 | 10:36 AM
#112
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
09-07-2015 | 11:13 AM
#113
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,249
Likes: 707
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Agrred. Monetized may not have been the right word. We can't just give this up is my point. I'm not sure how you measure job loss or future job loss on this one though. I think any productivity improvements will lessen future pilots required. If you mean snap back for furlough protection, I get it but paying for furlough protection never works.
09-07-2015 | 01:42 PM
#114
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
If Orville's theory of extreme managerial angst over pilots staying home is true, then here's the fix: If FO is removed from trip for LCA, removed FO shall occupy a first class seat (domestic) or business class seat (international) for every leg of his bid trip. This is "important" to ensure operational integrity in case of trainee pilot illness or unsat performance.
This will obviously cost management thousands in lost revenue every leg and much more than letting the FO stay home, but at least that lazy FO won't be staying home. Let's see if that doesn't unmask what their real angst is over this.
Carl - Management's problem solver
This will obviously cost management thousands in lost revenue every leg and much more than letting the FO stay home, but at least that lazy FO won't be staying home. Let's see if that doesn't unmask what their real angst is over this.
Carl - Management's problem solver
And we accumulate miles.
09-07-2015 | 02:10 PM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 922
Likes: 0
From: Decoupled
Just remember, everything they want in negotiations is about productivity. It was the theme throughout the departed agreement.
09-07-2015 | 02:20 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
From: 737n/FO
Prior to the TA, there were some posts about RA speaking at a LCA meeting or something similar. The poster noted that he was all unglued about certain aspects of our contract that allowed pilots to sit at home and be paid. He viewed it as a management deficiency.
Fast forward to the TA, the problem has been solved from a management perspective. The fact that it abrogates the seniority of all FO's is a minor detail in management's view.
What we had with the TA was an attempt to solve the Company's perceived problem. We, meaning the MEC, bent over backwards to be "fair" with the Company. Because that's what they do in the era of Constructive Appeasement. Everyone involved, except the rank and file, were patting themselves on the back. They also failed to apply institutional memory to the issue. Well, the membership disagreed and applied the standard of fairness.
This issue will return. It's a priority for the Company and personal stick in the eye of management. Therefore, we need to fashion a solution that will address the needs of both sides. In my view, seniority is sacrosanct. It's a non-negotiable item. We have already paid a price to eliminate the onerous recovery obligation. The answer is somewhere in the middle. There is an answer, we just didn't find it in the TA.
The Company has a self-induced manning problem. It's all about productivity. As long as you remember this point, you will understand your adversary.
I'm a captain and it will never have to deal with this issue. But, I do believe in fairness. I will continue to apply that standard to this issue.
Fast forward to the TA, the problem has been solved from a management perspective. The fact that it abrogates the seniority of all FO's is a minor detail in management's view.
What we had with the TA was an attempt to solve the Company's perceived problem. We, meaning the MEC, bent over backwards to be "fair" with the Company. Because that's what they do in the era of Constructive Appeasement. Everyone involved, except the rank and file, were patting themselves on the back. They also failed to apply institutional memory to the issue. Well, the membership disagreed and applied the standard of fairness.
This issue will return. It's a priority for the Company and personal stick in the eye of management. Therefore, we need to fashion a solution that will address the needs of both sides. In my view, seniority is sacrosanct. It's a non-negotiable item. We have already paid a price to eliminate the onerous recovery obligation. The answer is somewhere in the middle. There is an answer, we just didn't find it in the TA.
The Company has a self-induced manning problem. It's all about productivity. As long as you remember this point, you will understand your adversary.
I'm a captain and it will never have to deal with this issue. But, I do believe in fairness. I will continue to apply that standard to this issue.
09-07-2015 | 04:41 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Ok, so lets go back to the "old days."
Do you think the company would be willing to give us back:
A defined benefit pension.
Line of time bidding.
Trips touching our 7th week of vacation.
C2000 pay rates.
And whatever else made the "old days" so terrible. I think 65% of the Pilot group would be willing to vote for that.
Scoop
Do you think the company would be willing to give us back:
A defined benefit pension.
Line of time bidding.
Trips touching our 7th week of vacation.
C2000 pay rates.
And whatever else made the "old days" so terrible. I think 65% of the Pilot group would be willing to vote for that.
Scoop
09-07-2015 | 05:48 PM
#118
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
09-07-2015 | 06:58 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
09-07-2015 | 07:40 PM
#120
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Ok, so lets go back to the "old days."
Do you think the company would be willing to give us back:
A defined benefit pension.
Line of time bidding.
Trips touching our 7th week of vacation.
C2000 pay rates.
And whatever else made the "old days" so terrible. I think 65% of the Pilot group would be willing to vote for that.
Scoop
Do you think the company would be willing to give us back:
A defined benefit pension.
Line of time bidding.
Trips touching our 7th week of vacation.
C2000 pay rates.
And whatever else made the "old days" so terrible. I think 65% of the Pilot group would be willing to vote for that.
Scoop
Today, with this health care program we have, it costs a lot.
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