With regards to the LOE issue once you have a trip, it's your trip and that should be inviolable. If the company wants your trip they can pay you to stay at home, or if they assign recovery flying the ENTIRE new trip should be treated as a reroute and paid as premium pay.

Another option is to make it up to the original trip holder whether or not to release the trip for the LOE. It's his or her trip. The bid it and got the award based on their seniority. If the company wants it, and they want to apply recovery flying it's "let's make a deal time". The recovery trip is a better deal, or find another trip for the LOE.

 

RMMD,


You ask for a serious mature discussion so I will try to oblige.

My whole point on this topic is that we now have IOE trip drops that we have already bargained and paid for. So now that it is starting to get inconvenient for the company they want to get rid of it.

You have said it only benefits a small portion of the Pilots. I responded that so do our 777 pay-rates but somehow only a small portion of Pilots benefiting this way is OK. I fail to see a difference.

As a matter of fact I will say that every Pilot on property could benefit from the IOE trips years before they could, if ever, benefit from the 777 pay-
rates. Anyway I assume you disagree so lets move on.

Why are the IOE trip drops so important for management?

My opinion is that we have multiple fleets that will require a very large portion of training.

History refresher for our Northern brothers and sisters who may or may not have had a similar history at Northwest:

Prior to the merger all we heard about was fleet simplicity. We were parking fleets right and left in the name of "Fleet simplicity." At one time the long range fleet plan was something like 777/767-757/737. I know some fleets were already planned to go away (727 etc) but there was definitely a drive to a simplified fleet with all the efficiencies that it would bring.

Well then management wanted a merger. Fleet simplification could not be used to justify a merger so overnight "Fleet simplification" became "fleet versatility." Now we would put "the right equipment on the right route." Yields would go up and management would pat themselves on the back and reward themselves handsomely - and rightfully so.

So now we have one of the most complicated Airline Fleets in the world, a fleet that management willingly pursued and put into operation. Operating a vast diverse fleet is very inefficient so now management wants the Pilots to acquiesce to efficiency related concessions.

Well first off I say no concessions in a time of record profits, especially when we are in many ways behind compensation wise, compared to a 14 year old contract. This does not mean "No compromise," we will obviously have to compromise with management.

Here is an example that I am sure many Pilots would not like but it is a compromise:

DAL - "We want 75% IOE trip Pulls.
DALPA - "No, We just got rid of 23K on C2012 and reinstated the drops."
DAL - "OK how about 50% IOE trip drops"
DALPA "WE will agree to 25% IOE trip drops with the following stipulations......................"

Now compare that to what happened with TA-15. "The company said is was a must have item so we gave it to them."

Finally please answer this question referencing IOE trip drops:

If it is so inconsequential why is it a "must have" for the company?

Happy Labor day All!

 

I don't know - I was still on active duty in my family making days.

Scoop

 

Scoop, why do you waste your time with that XXXXXXX?

 

I appreciate your passion but I do not think he is a XXXXXXX. I assume he is a Delta Pilot arguing his point of view and although I strongly disagree with him he is free to argue his point of view.

If my goal was to change his mind I might indeed be wasting my time but I would rather see if I can refute his viewpoints with solid logic and reasoning that the average Delta Pilot might agree with.

Scoop

 

Don't forget. The company wanted to add yet another fleet type in TA15. Fleet versatility....yes.

 

How about remove 2 bidding lines from PBS...?

1. Bid with LCA.....

2. bid with emp. #....( that's wrong in every way anyway!)

Leave the rest alone and PAY ME!

 

I think the MEC and/or negotiators would argue that is was not given away but bargained for as part of a total package.

I never said it was inconsequential. Maybe someone else did. I argue that it was in fact consequential but concentrated on a small number of pilots. I think there are around 200-300 pilots in the training department represented by that council (48?). How would pilots here react if the MEC bargained for a special benefit for those 200-300 pilots and no one else? That is what the IOE trip drop has become. I don't expect others to agree with me.

 

Thanks. I appreciate that, and I simply have a different viewpoint than do others, so I don't really give a rat's ass if that offends some guys like texavia.

 

Explain to us how the TA2015 OE trip drop would work, because i am just curious. You and I are seeing this very different.

So say it was implemented starting in October and you have a category with 230 FOs and 20 LCA and every last one of them is planned to be doing OE with an 83 hour alv.

Everyone submits their bids by 6pm on the 11th, then what happens?