Is Delta a Dead end Career?
05-01-2016 | 04:38 PM
#131
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: 777 Sim Instructor
I was going from memory. I was JFK based flying LRs to mumbai and thought all the LRs had been delivered. In fact even today, wouldnt have guessed the merger was announced in 2008.
Speaking of LRs, on a mumbai trip, I forget which tail number it was but it was brand new, maybe 11 total hours on the ship. We were flying its first revenue flight. Directly overhead Frankfurt Main, the SAARU broke. We werent etops anymore so we pressed on to Mumbai. Things you dont know until something like this happens...mean time between failure on the saaru is 80,000 hours. It costs $750,000 and it was covered by the warrantee. Lucky us got an extra day in Mumbai.
Speaking of LRs, on a mumbai trip, I forget which tail number it was but it was brand new, maybe 11 total hours on the ship. We were flying its first revenue flight. Directly overhead Frankfurt Main, the SAARU broke. We werent etops anymore so we pressed on to Mumbai. Things you dont know until something like this happens...mean time between failure on the saaru is 80,000 hours. It costs $750,000 and it was covered by the warrantee. Lucky us got an extra day in Mumbai.
Don't remember much of the layover.
05-01-2016 | 05:13 PM
#132
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Joined: Apr 2014
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This reminds me of the same argument I had with a few DALPA MEC guys back in about 1993, when we were allowing the RJ's to grow, after we had just parked the DC9's.
Many of us said, "If the company wants to buy RJ's, fine, but WE should be flying them!"
The MEC said, "WHO would want to fly that little POS? We will never get any military guys to leave the service to sign on as new hires if they know they'll be stuck in an RJ right seat at those pay rates..."
I said, "I'll bet if you call all our furloughed pilots, THEY would LOVE to fly them, and flying right seat in a little jet beats flying 727 engineer on the B Scale, and we never had any problems getting military guys to do that!"
The Delta MEC has been -against- bringing RJ flying to mainline for many years due to that argument. Curly Bird on Chit Chat is still against it, but he was of the MEC vintage I just spoke of.
We are finally regaining the flying we gave away 20 years ago. Now we need to work on the pay rates.
Many of us said, "If the company wants to buy RJ's, fine, but WE should be flying them!"
The MEC said, "WHO would want to fly that little POS? We will never get any military guys to leave the service to sign on as new hires if they know they'll be stuck in an RJ right seat at those pay rates..."
I said, "I'll bet if you call all our furloughed pilots, THEY would LOVE to fly them, and flying right seat in a little jet beats flying 727 engineer on the B Scale, and we never had any problems getting military guys to do that!"
The Delta MEC has been -against- bringing RJ flying to mainline for many years due to that argument. Curly Bird on Chit Chat is still against it, but he was of the MEC vintage I just spoke of.
We are finally regaining the flying we gave away 20 years ago. Now we need to work on the pay rates.
05-02-2016 | 11:17 AM
#134
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
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My point is: AA and UA has substantially more higher paying equipment and thereby positions than we have.
United's highest paying equipment is the band of 777+747+764+787; and they have 140 of it. 12 yr captain pay on that right now is $305/hr.
Delta's highest paying equipment is B777/B747 ($270), followed by the 330/764 combo ($255). And we have a grand total of 90 of all those combined. And yes... out pay will go up once this contract gets passed.
7ER pay doesn't even come in the same league. So yes... a newbie UAL pilot will have a much better earning potential if they chase the equipment.
Now- if we can band the 7ER pay with the 330/764 pay, problem is solved. For an airline with the least number of higher paid widebodies: I think banded pay makes a lot of sense to us. I think it would solve our dilemma.
I didn't come here to whine how bad the situation at Delta is. I was agreeing with the OP on the fact that we have a fewer amount of widebodies... and thinking of solutions to mitigate the problem. But I agree- I should have phrased it differently.
Band our B777/B747/B764/A330 at United plus something- and it will be a good start. And get the 7ER up there too while we are at it. It saves company money because less pilots will be chasing equipment. And it will help us mitigate the issue we are discussing right here.
United's highest paying equipment is the band of 777+747+764+787; and they have 140 of it. 12 yr captain pay on that right now is $305/hr.
Delta's highest paying equipment is B777/B747 ($270), followed by the 330/764 combo ($255). And we have a grand total of 90 of all those combined. And yes... out pay will go up once this contract gets passed.
7ER pay doesn't even come in the same league. So yes... a newbie UAL pilot will have a much better earning potential if they chase the equipment.
Now- if we can band the 7ER pay with the 330/764 pay, problem is solved. For an airline with the least number of higher paid widebodies: I think banded pay makes a lot of sense to us. I think it would solve our dilemma.
I didn't come here to whine how bad the situation at Delta is. I was agreeing with the OP on the fact that we have a fewer amount of widebodies... and thinking of solutions to mitigate the problem. But I agree- I should have phrased it differently.
Band our B777/B747/B764/A330 at United plus something- and it will be a good start. And get the 7ER up there too while we are at it. It saves company money because less pilots will be chasing equipment. And it will help us mitigate the issue we are discussing right here.
Last edited by freightguy; 05-02-2016 at 11:34 AM.
05-02-2016 | 11:22 AM
#135
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
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I sort of agree with your premise but to make it more correct (in my opinion) you should be discussing top paying seats and drop the WB/NB description.
When DAL 767ERs paid more than WBs at UAL and AMR did those WBs not count?
Most Pilots (less a few large ego types) care much more about pay, and hence QOL then having 2 aisles.
Like I said I agree with your premise - based on pay - do not agree with not counting 767s as WBs - because they are WB.
Scoop
When DAL 767ERs paid more than WBs at UAL and AMR did those WBs not count?
Most Pilots (less a few large ego types) care much more about pay, and hence QOL then having 2 aisles.
Like I said I agree with your premise - based on pay - do not agree with not counting 767s as WBs - because they are WB.
Scoop
Last edited by freightguy; 05-02-2016 at 11:32 AM.
05-02-2016 | 11:36 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
My point is: AA and UA has substantially more higher paying equipment and thereby positions than we have.
United's highest paying equipment is the band of 777+747+764+787; and they have 140 of it. 12 yr captain pay on that right now is $305/hr.
Delta's highest paying equipment is B777/B747 ($270), followed by the 330/764 combo ($255). And we have a grand total of 90 of all those combined. And yes... out pay will go up once this contract gets passed.
7ER pay doesn't even come in the same league. So yes... a newbie UAL pilot will have a much better earning potential if they chase the equipment.
Now- if we can band the 7ER pay with the 330/764 pay, problem is solved. For an airline with the least number of higher paid widebodies: I think banded pay makes a lot of sense to us. I think it would solve our dilemma.
I didn't come here to whine how bad the situation at Delta is. I was agreeing with the OP on the fact that we have a fewer amount of widebodies... and thinking of solutions to mitigate the problem. But I agree- I should have phrased it differently.
Band our B777/B747/B764/A330 at United plus something- and it will be a good start. And get the 7ER up there too while we are at it. It saves company money because less pilots will be chasing equipment. And it will help us mitigate the issue we are discussing right here.
United's highest paying equipment is the band of 777+747+764+787; and they have 140 of it. 12 yr captain pay on that right now is $305/hr.
Delta's highest paying equipment is B777/B747 ($270), followed by the 330/764 combo ($255). And we have a grand total of 90 of all those combined. And yes... out pay will go up once this contract gets passed.
7ER pay doesn't even come in the same league. So yes... a newbie UAL pilot will have a much better earning potential if they chase the equipment.
Now- if we can band the 7ER pay with the 330/764 pay, problem is solved. For an airline with the least number of higher paid widebodies: I think banded pay makes a lot of sense to us. I think it would solve our dilemma.
I didn't come here to whine how bad the situation at Delta is. I was agreeing with the OP on the fact that we have a fewer amount of widebodies... and thinking of solutions to mitigate the problem. But I agree- I should have phrased it differently.
Band our B777/B747/B764/A330 at United plus something- and it will be a good start. And get the 7ER up there too while we are at it. It saves company money because less pilots will be chasing equipment. And it will help us mitigate the issue we are discussing right here.
05-02-2016 | 11:44 AM
#137
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Joined: Dec 2007
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They have derailed every attempt at banded pay in the past. But maybe with our new union leadership- we can at least put this for membership ratification. Can't let a handful of senior folks to derail this forever. This is not about a bunch of senior guys on the B777/B747. This affects our entire pilot group.
05-02-2016 | 11:50 AM
#138
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 430
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They have derailed every attempt at banded pay in the past. But maybe with our new union leadership- we can at least put this for membership ratification. Can't let a handful of senior folks to derail this forever. This is not about a bunch of senior guys on the B777/B747. This affects our entire pilot group.
05-02-2016 | 11:57 AM
#139
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Joined: May 2015
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From: A350 Both
just. plain. wrong. You are holding onto the old paradigm of doing things.
05-02-2016 | 12:26 PM
#140
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