Latest Negotiator's Notepad
06-04-2016 | 08:11 AM
#312
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: Works too much
If I may...i'd like to point out a few things as a semi-outsider. Part of Delta yes, just not in flight ops.
1. Why do guys keep picking up white slips especially now during Section 6 negotiations? Over the past 30 days i've flown with 2 Captains that said they picked up a while slip. This should not even be an option at this point.
2. Why is it that 60-70% of FOs I fly with have the orange lanyard yet only maybe 25% of Captains have it on? Not a statistical survey...based mostly on my trips over the past 2-3 months. If you can even wear an orange lanyard then why would you expect to get certain results out of negotiations?
3. At what point do you guys start flying the contract? Pilots are still going over contractual duty day limits, going outside and helping the ramp, not writing things up downline so that the plane doesn't get stuck in an outstation etc. This in my opinion is where you guys have real leverage. There's so many things you do, that you don't have to, to keep the operation going that if you just stopped doing it would make Delta management have an "oh fu**" moment. The NMB won't let you strike, it's out of the question. This is your leverage...
1. Why do guys keep picking up white slips especially now during Section 6 negotiations? Over the past 30 days i've flown with 2 Captains that said they picked up a while slip. This should not even be an option at this point.
2. Why is it that 60-70% of FOs I fly with have the orange lanyard yet only maybe 25% of Captains have it on? Not a statistical survey...based mostly on my trips over the past 2-3 months. If you can even wear an orange lanyard then why would you expect to get certain results out of negotiations?
3. At what point do you guys start flying the contract? Pilots are still going over contractual duty day limits, going outside and helping the ramp, not writing things up downline so that the plane doesn't get stuck in an outstation etc. This in my opinion is where you guys have real leverage. There's so many things you do, that you don't have to, to keep the operation going that if you just stopped doing it would make Delta management have an "oh fu**" moment. The NMB won't let you strike, it's out of the question. This is your leverage...
06-04-2016 | 09:40 AM
#313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 319
06-04-2016 | 09:44 AM
#314
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
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From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Unless i'm mistaken...the last pilot group to go on strike was the Spirit pilots who went on strike in June of 2010. Their contract became amendable in January of 2007. So 42 months after the amendable date of the contract for a group that's a fraction the size of the Delta pilot group.
06-04-2016 | 11:28 AM
#315
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,465
Likes: 0
From: A330 First Officer
Believe it or not your 14.5% raise was a huge pay increase. As for PS, and I know this is going to get me a tongue lashing of epic scale, the pilot group gave up something and negotiated PS in it's place. We expended time and capital to achieve it. The other employee groups had it given to them once this occurred. It has been a few years of free extra income for you. If you feel that this statement is wrong please explain it to me. I don't know how many times over the last few years I've had FA's ask me "Do you guys get PS too?"
06-04-2016 | 01:01 PM
#317
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,253
Likes: 96
From: DAL 330
Yep - pretty much. If we try to take actions that fall under "self Help" before being released to do so it would cause a lot of trouble for DALPA/ALPA.
We are in mediation now and I believe the NMB (or a similar gov't entity)has to "release" us which depending on who you believe can be anytime between 6 months and never.
Many on this board think we will never be released due to the size of DAL. John Malone has said repeatedly that he does not believe this. He thinks a release is possible but it will only be for a very major issue.
FWIW - I tend to share his opinion.
Scoop
06-04-2016 | 01:39 PM
#319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,561
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From: Captain
UAL 1985
NWA 1998
AMR 1999 lasted 30 minutes then Presidential Emergecy Board and a contract to follow
Comair 2000
NWA mechs 2005
Sprit 2010
It is possible
06-04-2016 | 01:41 PM
#320
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Believe it or not, it is my business. Why?
1. Since we're not unionized (and many pilots think we shouldn't) then ALPA gets to indirectly negotiate for us as well.
2. Since we have the same employer and share the same workspace (separated by a door) then it is my business.
3. Since many pilots seems to believe that our 14.5% pay increase was a huge raise and tell my coworkers that...even when the cut to PS alone eats up 3/4 of that 14.5% then I'll go ahead and offer my opinion on your situation.
4. I have years of union experience, even though I don't have one now and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look back in history and see how labor has been successful in attaining considerable gains.
5. There's too many pilots out there that think the NMB is going to release you guys to strike. Read my lips: Never gonna happen!
6. I can't stand our greedy executive team and would much rather you guys get your fair share rather than Big Ed fatten up his wallet even more.
7. Dude, we're on the same team...
1. Since we're not unionized (and many pilots think we shouldn't) then ALPA gets to indirectly negotiate for us as well.
2. Since we have the same employer and share the same workspace (separated by a door) then it is my business.
3. Since many pilots seems to believe that our 14.5% pay increase was a huge raise and tell my coworkers that...even when the cut to PS alone eats up 3/4 of that 14.5% then I'll go ahead and offer my opinion on your situation.
4. I have years of union experience, even though I don't have one now and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look back in history and see how labor has been successful in attaining considerable gains.
5. There's too many pilots out there that think the NMB is going to release you guys to strike. Read my lips: Never gonna happen!
6. I can't stand our greedy executive team and would much rather you guys get your fair share rather than Big Ed fatten up his wallet even more.
7. Dude, we're on the same team...
Im responding to this post because there was a time I was a pilot centric (ex military) guy. Over time my viewpoint has changed and what you are saying is really quite correct.
We pilots are unionized contract workers. That status carries some plusses and some minuses. We were hired to perform our trade/skillset. We are no longer the military's leaders and managers.
Former military guys, please listen. The company may have hired you because you had a track record of expertise and success. But, the reality is they do not want your opinion on anything managerial. If you try to see the operation through the prism of management, you hurt our bargaining position.
Today, now, you are a "technician pilot" nothing more. DALPA appears, thru negotiations, to be attempting to bring Delta into the current day wrt the value of a pilot. The market value of a pilot is pretty high right now. Dont hamstring our value by trying to see it the other sides way.
I post this only because I was a former mil guy and I didnt understand unions or unionization at all when I was hired. It took me a few years before that bulb began to even shine at 10-15 watts. So trust me on this. You are a cost item. Your job, our job collectively, is to raise that cost...substantially.
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