Latest Negotiator's Notepad
06-04-2016 | 01:54 PM
#321
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
From: Power top
Dalfa,
Im responding to this post because there was a time I was a pilot centric (ex military) guy. Over time my viewpoint has changed and what you are saying is really quite correct.
We pilots are unionized contract workers. That status carries some plusses and some minuses. We were hired to perform our trade/skillset. We are no longer the military's leaders and managers.
Former military guys, please listen. The company may have hired you because you had a track record of expertise and success. But, the reality is they do not want your opinion on anything managerial. If you try to see the operation through the prism of management, you hurt our bargaining position.
Today, now, you are a "technician pilot" nothing more. DALPA appears, thru negotiations, to be attempting to bring Delta into the current day wrt the value of a pilot. The market value of a pilot is pretty high right now. Dont hamstring our value by trying to see it the other sides way.
I post this only because I was a former mil guy and I didnt understand unions or unionization at all when I was hired. It took me a few years before that bulb began to even shine at 10-15 watts. So trust me on this. You are a cost item. Your job, our job collectively, is to raise that cost...substantially.
Im responding to this post because there was a time I was a pilot centric (ex military) guy. Over time my viewpoint has changed and what you are saying is really quite correct.
We pilots are unionized contract workers. That status carries some plusses and some minuses. We were hired to perform our trade/skillset. We are no longer the military's leaders and managers.
Former military guys, please listen. The company may have hired you because you had a track record of expertise and success. But, the reality is they do not want your opinion on anything managerial. If you try to see the operation through the prism of management, you hurt our bargaining position.
Today, now, you are a "technician pilot" nothing more. DALPA appears, thru negotiations, to be attempting to bring Delta into the current day wrt the value of a pilot. The market value of a pilot is pretty high right now. Dont hamstring our value by trying to see it the other sides way.
I post this only because I was a former mil guy and I didnt understand unions or unionization at all when I was hired. It took me a few years before that bulb began to even shine at 10-15 watts. So trust me on this. You are a cost item. Your job, our job collectively, is to raise that cost...substantially.
06-04-2016 | 02:23 PM
#322
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
management has/does cultivate the pilot groups self deception our participation is essential to the strategic management of the corporation......
thats how we end up with pilots calling other pilots rocket surgeons for not getting onboard with managements program......and heartily voting yes to a 40% pay cut.
thats how we end up with pilots calling other pilots rocket surgeons for not getting onboard with managements program......and heartily voting yes to a 40% pay cut.
06-04-2016 | 04:39 PM
#323
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 382
Likes: 2
From: 737B
So the last "legacy" airline pilots to actually go on strike was almost 20 years ago.... I'm not saying it's impossible, but hardly likely. Equating DL to Comair or Spirit is nowhere near a valid comparison.
06-04-2016 | 04:57 PM
#324
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
From: Power top
management has/does cultivate the pilot groups self deception our participation is essential to the strategic management of the corporation......
thats how we end up with pilots calling other pilots rocket surgeons for not getting onboard with managements program......and heartily voting yes to a 40% pay cut.
thats how we end up with pilots calling other pilots rocket surgeons for not getting onboard with managements program......and heartily voting yes to a 40% pay cut.
06-04-2016 | 06:23 PM
#326
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Believe it or not your 14.5% raise was a huge pay increase. As for PS, and I know this is going to get me a tongue lashing of epic scale, the pilot group gave up something and negotiated PS in it's place. We expended time and capital to achieve it. The other employee groups had it given to them once this occurred. It has been a few years of free extra income for you. If you feel that this statement is wrong please explain it to me. I don't know how many times over the last few years I've had FA's ask me "Do you guys get PS too?"
Along with a 14.5% increase to my base hourly pay (not my total salary) my profit sharing check will be in the neighborhood of 9-12% smaller than yours (you will get 28-30% whereas I will get 16-19%), F/A staffing has been reduced on the 777 by 1-2 positions, our monthly shared rewards are now harder to get, we lost our $500 referral bonus, our STD insurance premium went up over 20%, our medical insurance rates have gone up in some cases by double digit percentages, AND our workspace has been eroded (think A319-320-321-757).
So tell me again how that 14.5% increase to my base hourly pay is a "huge pay increase"?
06-04-2016 | 06:26 PM
#327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
I have been told personally by the International President of a union (now former President) that the NMB at the time Linda Puchala was confirmed as a member that they weren't going to release ANY of the labor groups of the big 3 airlines under their watch. This isn't hearsay, this is from a person that was the International President of one of the large airline unions at the time (2009-2010). Take it for what it's worth...
06-04-2016 | 06:45 PM
#328
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
I have been told personally by the International President of a union (now former President) that the NMB at the time Linda Puchala was confirmed as a member that they weren't going to release ANY of the labor groups of the big 3 airlines under their watch. This isn't hearsay, this is from a person that was the International President of one of the large airline unions at the time (2009-2010). Take it for what it's worth...
BUT, the publicity from the media, can affect future bookings. Labor risk, can affect the stock price. The public can be fickle, and might avoid buying tickets for the family vacation on us if the news media is talking about Delta pilots possibly striking. It's not nearly as powerful and effective as actually shutting the place down, but Management still feels it in their wallets when the share price drops $2-3 a share.
06-04-2016 | 07:23 PM
#329
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
The NMB is a government entity and as such, has a mission statement, not a goal.
The pertinent part of the NMB’s mission statement is:
“The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements.”
The NMB has morphed over the years to believe it has a goal. In this regard they believe their underlying goal is a successful dispute resolution, not to mention the underlying pressure they are under to facilitate it based on an internal supposed 97% success rate of late.
Just as valid as facilitating a resolution however they are tasked with the obligation to define and recognize an impasse.
They have just as much responsibility to declare an impasse when it in fact exists, as they do to help find resolution.
They do not allow strikes, they do not allow work stoppages, and they do not allow lockouts. They do not allow anything.
They are supposed to declare an impasse when one exists within “some” reasonable time frame (see the word prompt in their mission) although lately (the last 30 yrs or so) they’ve been able to stretch it out to “denial of binding arbitration” as an excuse for not having “done their job”, as they see it.
If they see a release to self help as a failure, they have a personal problem. At that point the process has been undermined. It’s supposed to be a valid part of the process.
Over the years "we" have let politics sneak in to what was intended to be only a gate. But it's crucial to understand the gate can be greased again.
The only tactic older and more conclusive than divide and conquer is to have the enemy believe they have lost the war before the battle has begun.
GOT WILL.
Graybeard.
The pertinent part of the NMB’s mission statement is:
“The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements.”
The NMB has morphed over the years to believe it has a goal. In this regard they believe their underlying goal is a successful dispute resolution, not to mention the underlying pressure they are under to facilitate it based on an internal supposed 97% success rate of late.
Just as valid as facilitating a resolution however they are tasked with the obligation to define and recognize an impasse.
They have just as much responsibility to declare an impasse when it in fact exists, as they do to help find resolution.
They do not allow strikes, they do not allow work stoppages, and they do not allow lockouts. They do not allow anything.
They are supposed to declare an impasse when one exists within “some” reasonable time frame (see the word prompt in their mission) although lately (the last 30 yrs or so) they’ve been able to stretch it out to “denial of binding arbitration” as an excuse for not having “done their job”, as they see it.
If they see a release to self help as a failure, they have a personal problem. At that point the process has been undermined. It’s supposed to be a valid part of the process.
Over the years "we" have let politics sneak in to what was intended to be only a gate. But it's crucial to understand the gate can be greased again.
The only tactic older and more conclusive than divide and conquer is to have the enemy believe they have lost the war before the battle has begun.
GOT WILL.
Graybeard.
06-04-2016 | 07:55 PM
#330
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
The NMB is a government entity and as such, has a mission statement, not a goal.
The pertinent part of the NMB’s mission statement is:
“The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements.”
The NMB has morphed over the years to believe it has a goal. In this regard they believe their underlying goal is a successful dispute resolution, not to mention the underlying pressure they are under to facilitate it based on an internal supposed 97% success rate of late.
Just as valid as facilitating a resolution however they are tasked with the obligation to define and recognize an impasse.
They have just as much responsibility to declare an impasse when it in fact exists, as they do to help find resolution.
They do not allow strikes, they do not allow work stoppages, and they do not allow lockouts. They do not allow anything.
They are supposed to declare an impasse when one exists within “some” reasonable time frame (see the word prompt in their mission) although lately (the last 30 yrs or so) they’ve been able to stretch it out to “denial of binding arbitration” as an excuse for not having “done their job”, as they see it.
If they see a release to self help as a failure, they have a personal problem. At that point the process has been undermined. It’s supposed to be a valid part of the process.
Over the years "we" have let politics sneak in to what was intended to be only a gate. But it's crucial to understand the gate can be greased again.
The only tactic older and more conclusive than divide and conquer is to have the enemy believe they have lost the war before the battle has begun.
GOT WILL.
Graybeard.
The pertinent part of the NMB’s mission statement is:
“The prompt and orderly resolution of disputes arising out of the negotiation of new or revised collective bargaining agreements.”
The NMB has morphed over the years to believe it has a goal. In this regard they believe their underlying goal is a successful dispute resolution, not to mention the underlying pressure they are under to facilitate it based on an internal supposed 97% success rate of late.
Just as valid as facilitating a resolution however they are tasked with the obligation to define and recognize an impasse.
They have just as much responsibility to declare an impasse when it in fact exists, as they do to help find resolution.
They do not allow strikes, they do not allow work stoppages, and they do not allow lockouts. They do not allow anything.
They are supposed to declare an impasse when one exists within “some” reasonable time frame (see the word prompt in their mission) although lately (the last 30 yrs or so) they’ve been able to stretch it out to “denial of binding arbitration” as an excuse for not having “done their job”, as they see it.
If they see a release to self help as a failure, they have a personal problem. At that point the process has been undermined. It’s supposed to be a valid part of the process.
Over the years "we" have let politics sneak in to what was intended to be only a gate. But it's crucial to understand the gate can be greased again.
The only tactic older and more conclusive than divide and conquer is to have the enemy believe they have lost the war before the battle has begun.
GOT WILL.
Graybeard.
The reality is that the way we get more leverage back is with statuatory changes to the RLA.
1. We must enact a process for employees covered by the RLA to file an unfair labor practice with the NLRB. Yes, the NLRB. Why? Because they already have administrative law judges and have quasi-judiciary powers. All things the NMB does not have. This would protect more employees from management retaliation AND union member from unions who choose not to represent their members fairly.
2. The addition of "concerted activity" to the list of protected activities by employees covered by the RLA just as the NLRA has. This would decrease fear among employees for retaliation for speaking out on social media for example.
3. Automatic impasse declared 18 months after the amendable date of a contract and mandatory arbitration 18 months after the first day of negotiations for 1st contract. If you can't figure out a contract after 18 months then you're at an impasse.
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