I don't think it would turn out that way at all. I mean maybe if we merged with UPS or some other highly paid LBP airline? Other than that, no way.

Even LBP would take into account the fleet. If we got 100 A380s, the "one rate" would obviously have to go up, etc. In your hypothetical with Alaska (which I don't think will happen now) our one rate would be significantly higher than their existing rate, therefore our pay only expectations would be much higher than theirs. Then factor in our higher retirements and other factors and its a slam dunk. That alone would nuke any hope they could ever have of full relative.

Say we were an all A380 airline (same number of pilots) with $500/hr for CA's and $350 for FO's (never going to happen since only foreign airlines are permitted by the regulations to fly them). Would Alaska have a case saying "but but but they only have one rate like us ergo full relative!" LOL! No way.

Simply having one rate doesn't mean we would lose out at all. Particularly if that rate is significantly higher than the merged airline in question. Career expectations for pay depend on...pay. Not simply what seat you are in at the snapshot.

 

First reserve a reasonable number of retirements (500-1000 at least) and staple to top, then pull and plug the equivalent wide body captains, staple to top, integrate narrow body captain equivalent positions with a fair ratio, then wide body FO equivalent positions in a fair ratio, then narrow body FO positions in a fair ratio.

Even with LPB, the larger equipment still would influence the pay expectations. Large planes would still bring more wages to the table, its just that (if we elected to go with LBP) that would have been spread around our entire pre merged group. There is no logical reason to punish that in the slightest.

Again, I'm not in favor of LBP and I don't see it happening for numerous reasons. But if it did, it wouldn't hurt us in a merger situation.

 

Except: I don't think the arbitrators would care much about the pay rate of the airplanes the groups bring in. They care more about what the rate(s) will be moving forward. Career expectations. Not career past.

 

With LBP all planes brought in from both sides bring the same amount to the table. That's the problem.

 

Not going to happens - the most senior B-737 CA WILL NOT be any higher than the most senior DELTA B-737 CA - this ratioed seniority is exactly why so many NW guys ended up 2 years junior to their year group @ Delta. If we (DALPA) didn't allow it to happen with NW (including the arbitration decision) why would we have to give it up to Alaska? I'm sure they will give some kind of protection for Alaska pilots but they are ALPA, we are ALPA and the merger will be similar to other mergers. Also, the Alaska rumors have been around since the day I was hired 16 years ago - maybe they'll happen some day

 

I still don't see the problem. You been working 10 years, you get paid at the 10 year rate. Your seniority is still based on how long you have been working. You do realize that it is a moot discussion for these purposes, because there is still way too many people that feel flying a 777 is harder than flying a MD88 and therefore deserves some sort of premium.

 

Fences. Too bad, but that is what would happen. The bottom part of the seniority list that is stovepiped below 737A would get merged. Everyone senior to them is in the clear.

 

The most senior 737 A is # 66 on the overall seniority list. (If, it's the #1 guy in ATL), so I don't understand what you are saying.

Right now we have a 4 category merged seniority list between NWA and DAL -- Wide body/Narrowbody and Captan/FO's -- Down from the South's original proposal that there should be 7 categories based on pre-merger pay, because the arbitrators didn't see the need to complicate it like that. So, they seemed to entirely discount pre merger pay so as to lump the groups together according to post-mreger pay -- wide body vs. narrow body. They even put NWA 757's into the wide body group category, because Delta, "....operated it's B767s and 757s as a combined fleet."

That was the starting point of the list which was further adjusted for more retirements on the NWA/North side. Nowhere did I see where they considered prestige, routes, bases, lifestyle, vacations, or really even size of aircraft. For the initial starting point of the list, it all seemed to be about post merger pay.

Four categories for 16 different pay scales. How many do you think they will come up with for two?


It's a tough argument for us to make if we only have 2 pay categories.

 

It's a moot point, because our union has seen the wisdom to create a many pay categories as possible and some other things.

Smart move.

I just think we should stop pushing for longevity based pay. If we merged with that system, it would hurt us.


That's all I'm saying.

 

Who would it hurt? Sure any one flying the 777 will still get a premium international override pay. Think outside the box seniority based pay is a total win. But if you only think that the economy will stay roaring or no disaster ever hits or they never swap out your 7er's for 737's then maybe it's a wash. but, for the rough times and downfalls or you just don't want to live or commute to precious Atlanta to get a raise then seniority based pay is a win win because your pay will never go down just up...