It would be an interesting process... however we sort of have that seniority structure to an extent already from the 320(ish) through the 777. There would be a reasonably significant training church for at least a bit as it sorts itself out to be certain.

I do agree that it would cost jobs in the long run... a comparison with UPS's data would be helpful as to their training events and movement to get a grasp on how much. I believe something comparable to UA's system would be a better balance. Oh, and by the way... UA has far less penalizing fences for any move compared to us. We have among the most stringent fences in the industry. Most people seem to ignore that or not be aware of it.

330's coming in are direct 744 replacements, and it's a 777 sized airplane. You can thank the Harwood and gang in their JCBA seniority posturing for that idiotic move (we got the seniority list we were going to get anyways..). The 350 fits in that category as well. Dropping those into the top scale significantly increases our % of top pay rate pilots.

 

It would reduce movement, no doubt, because it removes the pay incentive to bid up to the next highest paying seat. What will happen is guys will pick the seat where they will be the most senior, and stay there forever, there would no longer be a reason to bid up to the next highest paying seat, if they all pay the same.

Seniority in category will be 'everything' so look for the bottom half of the highest paying categories today to bid to something else where they would now be in the top half of the category.

OK, so what does that do to the training church? .

It reduces the waterfall of backfill training we see today. One 777 Captain retires, one 737 Captain bids into the 777/747/330/764/767 category, nobody else moves, because there is no longer an incentive for the 767 Captain to move up to the 764, or for the A330 Captain to move up to the 777. Everyone stays put, except for one 737 Captain. Instead of each retirement generating 5 or more training events you have one training event.

Less pilots will have to go to the school house, which means all categories are now overstaffed, so it will lead to fewer wide body captains required overall to fly the schedules.

It's a manning concession, Shirley.

Now, what are you willing to pay for that?

 

Rebid? um, no. The normal AE process can take care of it.

 

Why would you need/want to move to a different aircraft? Big shiny jet syndrome? Have at it. There are plenty of senior guys that are tired of having to cross multiple time zones just for the money. I fly with many FOs that are tired of it as well.

But really it is no different than it is now. If there is no growth, there is no movement.

 

Absent growth, the movement is only to replace retiring pilots, and retiring aircraft. The more manning concessions we give up (like higher ALV's and pay banding) the fewer retiring pilots will need to be replaced 1-1.

The 9 remaining 747's are supposed to be in the fall of 2017. The A350's will be coming online next year, as well as the 5 remaining A330 IGW's this year. That's going to generate some movement in AE's at the top, and the A321's/737-9's/C100's are going to generate movement at that end. It may not growth, but movement.

Take away the incentive to move airplanes for more money, and you won't be sending as many pilots to school, which makes them available to fly 91 hour lines instead, resulting in fewer pilots needed overall.

 

And since we are growing and hiring, this is the perfect time to make the switch. Or else continue to wonder why more newbies are going to airlines with an actual super permium fleet.

 

Great Points

I just wonder when we are getting more used 777s or any other used widebody. It was management that said a glut of widebodies would be coming onto the market for dirt cheap prices. That was over 6 months ago....and after a lot of noise about it...little to no peep.

 

Hmm....I'm bored after flying the same jet for 10 years? I like French? I want domestic/international? Come on bra...many reasons. More importantly to me and everyone else should be bases. People would never leave the prime bases. And if they got displaced they won't slide over to Seattle to not take a pay cut, they will just push the last penguin off the ice berg. I guess I don't like this because I am so junior. It's all about me...shocker

 

There are 13,000 different opinions as to what is the perfect airplane/trip/schedule. There is no "prime" base, and I couldn't care less if I ever go to Paris again. (and I am not alone) And as far as getting displaced, there would be no paycut. You could either stay on the same airplane and go to a different base or stay in the same base and be more senior on a more junior piece of gear -for the same $$. It is true that every category would get more senior, and that would include you.

 

Candidates are no-showing interviews and class dates (confirmed by a management source as FAR more significant than SD's whitewashed equivocation) because of our eroding work rules and pay. Look a the trend line over the last couple of contracts and TA.

Guys would flock to Delta regardless of its lesser widebody fleet if they felt they'd be commensurately rewarded for their contributions to the most profitable airline in history. I bet we're about to see a stampede for the exits by anyone with less than 5 years here.

As it stands, in another year if Bastian and ALPA continue down this path, Delta will be a half-step above or below Allegiant.