By that logic, what if it was a 50% pay increase...but with zero health insurance, no work rules, everything below the 757 at DCI, no sick leave (paid or unpaid) and you had to buy your own hotels at the overnights? Show us the "reasonableness" of turning down more than 95% of what the country makes? Really?

Yes we make a good living...because we all worked really hard to get here and work really hard every day (except for the 2 or 3 guys that sit wide body short call at home 5+ hours away because they don't think they'll get called...)

To any extent the NMB is biased against us because, according to the gist of your point, we already make too much :confused: we should politely remind them how much the company is making now, and how much the company is rewarding itself. Then point to us being blown by with recent UAL, AA, UPS and even Allegiant. Soon we will have the arbitrated 321 pay, which will likely be UAL-ish in nature at the very least, with zero concessions of any kind. Then let the company argue to the federal mediator how and why what the federal arbitrator said was reasonable, which was merely based on current peer set precedent, they need concessions to get there or maybe slightly above, because they allegedly have all these concerns that need addressing, and all these jobs they need to reduce from our list through "productivity", then sit there with our arms crosses and watch them flail around trying to make that case to the board.

That is a complete non sequitur, as nothing remotely like that is on the table. Try harder. Here, I'll help you. We decide to turn that down over a stupid sick note. Everything else we have negotiated we decide is acceptable. Begin.

I think that is a great strategy up to a point.

Define sick note.

We are legally required to call in sick for many ailments and conditions that may not be verifiable by a third party, ever. You're required to get something "verified" and the Dr merely states "no outward verifiable symptoms observed, could not duplicate". Now what? Begin.

Extra credit for the following scenario: the company thinks we're all still abusers and is looking for someone to make an example out of. Begin.

Anyway you're trying to out exaggerate my exaggeration which was a response to your original exaggeration. My point is we can not possibly be willing to take across the board concessions during times like these just to get peer set plus a little in rates. The company isn't just a little bit shy on rates, they then reduce them several percent further, and take an ace out the deck to use later (UNLIMITED "officer's eat first" clause...as in NO LIMITS...gee, we totes didn't think they'd do THAT! :roll eyes: )

More large RJ's, and an all new JV methodology that we all know that since they want it so bad (they're not after this so they can give us more flying jobs at the expense of foreign airlines, I can assure you that), it will lead to a worse scenario for us because it gives them EVEN MORE "flexibility" than they currently have, which is already a lot, all while we're currently the weakest wide body legacy out there despite that the other guys outsource a lot too. Nope.

In any case, other than the ambiguity of what happens when you can't get a (potentially hostile/liability adverse third party) to verify something that is not third party verifiable in the first place, I could maybe swallow the sick AIP, you know, since it was their biggest "religious issue" and everything. So we give that to them, and then they high five themselves, spike the football in our faces and dab on us in front of the NMB, then run and hide behind the NMB and chant "FOUR MORE YEARS!" and we're supposed to just hand them our sword at the courthouse because its all a lost cause?

What the heck is the definition of sick leave abuse? Call in sick and you're not. Call in sick, call in well and green slip. I've heard a bunch of theories.

Why don't the spell it out, and fix the specific problem. Rather than punish 13,300 of us. I'd seriously like to hear their problem before you make me go to a doctor for a note, last time was in grade school.

Several straw men in there. We don't make more than 90% of the people in our country with the same or similar liability and responsibility, not to mention the demonstrated skill and experience to even be eligible for the position. It's an invalid comparison.
A minimum wage worker in the US makes more than 95% of Sri Lankans. How dare they ask for a raise. See?
The sick leave is exactly what the Co wanted in 2012. What changed??
I think our Dec reopener is reasonable, and with a couple adjustments to the AIP's would pass in the high approval range the MEC set as a goal.

Actually, I believe Donatelli said there was no more money. RA said there was no better offer on the table and if we didn't vote in the new TA it would be bad for everyone. Someone also said that plane orders would be cancelled... and they were.... and then they weren't:) I trust our MEC. Let's all take a deep breath and see how this plays out. Papa

I'll gladly press to test that one. They gonna ground me? Forever? Much ado about nothing.

I do think there should be an exception for broken legs, malaria, dengue fever and things like that, but getting a note after 100 hours is no bfd. I just don't get the outrage.

You're right. Your argument is a complete straw man.

Not sure anyone else sees it that way.

But they surely saw you punt.