Solid response to my question Tsquare...go vols

You're right about UPS and their rates, retirement, vacation etc. The problem is that they work for a company that has been tremendously profitable and did not go thru BK. Their contractual gains have been made steadily, not 20 or 30% at a time(like us, both up or down 20/30%) In fact, didn't their latest contract take 4 years and only netted 3% annual return(based on the 4 year wait?) And they're s always the argument someone will make that they are not in our "industry"

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing for mediocrity but I'm trying to be realistic. The RLA and NMB really handcuff us on what we can do. Even though this is THE BEST NEGOTIATING ENVIRONMENT EVER AT DELTA AIR LINES, I don't think we can expect to recoup EVERYTHING we lost in BK. I will not support a mediocre TA and will absolutely stick with our current deal for as long as it takes.

Is 18/5/5 with full retro now better than 20/5/5 with a signing bonus 18 months from now? And we know how the world can change in 18 months.

This guy gets it

22 puts us about 4 ahead. I read here, they will get a bump to match us. I haven't read their contract. But we can party like it's 2004! Cause we caught up to our old pay rates. Less inflation, I'll be drinking PBR. BTW, my kids have better medical insurance as relatively new members of the workforce than we have here.

Good points, forgot about their "me too clause" Yes, our medical benefits are poor.....

This is weak. Just settle. This will be another failed TA and NO vote.

So what % do we have to have then for you to be able to buy Schlitz?

To match UAL on a weighted average we need a 14% increase now and 3% per year thereafter not counting PS. With PS and if we retain the pensionable aspect of the PS we will gain at least 10% more above UAL. 22% now would net us around 18% more than UAL with the higher expected PS. Even if the PS numbers came in exactly the same we would net 11.5 percent more with PS being pensionable.

The problem here though, obviously, isn't the lack of high enough rates, its the presence of, and the bredth and depth of concessions.

16.5 is really 12.5, which is really 12.5 minus an unknown and unlimited variable that management and management alone will control from now on. So is it 11.5? 10.0? 7.24? Who knows. Well, management knows, don't they?

That alone sinks their so called "pay proposal" best case out of extreme arrogance, and worst case because they want the process to tank so they can abuse the RLA and get maybe half a decade of built in pay CUTS from our already industry lagging PWA though inflation. Our "surrender seven" are aiding and abetting their efforts greatly in squealing about how any second now retro will be a lost cause. This plays right into their hands.

No talk of UPS sailing.