Originally Posted by D Mantooth (Post 2200965)

I don't even know where to start on this. Good Lord.

You must have not gone to the same college Tom Brielmann didn't go to.

It's not gone, it's in our pockets. And we would bargain off those rates in the next contract.

Forget it. Math and risk analysis is obviously hard.

You guys should consider converting all of our pay to profit sharing.

Originally Posted by D Mantooth (Post 2200965)

I don't even know where to start on this. Good Lord.

You must have not gone to the same college Tom Brielmann didn't go to.

It's not gone, it's in our pockets. And we would bargain off those rates in the next contract.

Forget it. Math and risk analysis is obviously hard.

You guys should consider converting all of our pay to profit sharing.

Originally Posted by D Mantooth (Post 2200965)

I don't even know where to start on this. Good Lord.

You must have not gone to the same college Tom Brielmann didn't go to.

It's not gone, it's in our pockets. And we would bargain off those rates in the next contract.

Forget it. Math and risk analysis is obviously hard.

You guys should consider converting all of our pay to profit sharing.

Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 2201021)

I think the point most people are trying to make is that pay rates are going to be the same across UAL, AA, DL etc. within a few percent always. If we throw profit sharing into pay rates now next contract they'll look at us and completely forget we gave up profit sharing and compare our rates to our so called peers. You don't agree? For example are we now allowed much higher pay rates now than UAL because we rolled profit sharing into pay in 2012?

Originally Posted by longcall (Post 2200926)

This ^^^^

And back to the original post.. Dude how dense are you? If we convert PS to pay rates, it is lost the next contract cycle. Just like the C2012 conversion. Gone.

Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2200971)

Keep throwing that flag, you are making me think about it in a different way. For FOs OE trip drops will be a significant portion of compensation or QOL (as they choose) going forward. There will be a lot of OE in the future. The fact that they have a choice now is significant. The company sees it as a productivity item so I don't see much changing with it.

Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 2201021)

If we throw profit sharing into pay rates now next contract they'll look at us and completely forget we gave up profit sharing and compare our rates to our so called peers.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 2201034)

Bingo! We are actually seeing this play out before our eyes with this TA.

Scoop

Originally Posted by D Mantooth (Post 2200784)

If management came to you tomorrow and asked if you wanted to take $10 an hour of a pay rate and convert it into an equivalent profit-sharing percentage, what would you say? Unless you were insane, you'd tell them to pound sand. The pay rate is far more secure and is delivered every two weeks.

So why is there such outcry when I support doing the opposite?

And, to be very clear, I do not support "trading" it for higher pay. Get the best rates we possibly can, and then (only then) try to convert some defined PS percentage into a higher pay rate on top of what was negotiated, leaving the upper end of PS intact so we can share in the bounty if Delta continues to prosper.

To be clear, I know that this is a moot point. PS is somehow a sacred cow now, even though DALPA was ridiculed when they negotiated it.

Originally Posted by D Mantooth (Post 2200965)

I don't even know where to start on this. Good Lord.

You must have not gone to the same college Tom Brielmann didn't go to.

It's not gone, it's in our pockets. And we would bargain off those rates in the next contract.

Forget it. Math and risk analysis is obviously hard.

You guys should consider converting all of our pay to profit sharing.