The pilots are asking for too much money and Management is holding profit sharing hostage.

19/5/5 will never happen with no PS cuts. It's outside the zone of reasonableness.

22/7/7 was in another Solar System.

 

yep. we would be best served taking a lesson from history....

as that great Naval Hero once said...'damn the torpedoes, we may as well give up now"......

 

I would not put 19/5/5 out of the zone of reasonableness. The problem is the NMB probably considers managements package more reasonable. In total dollars they are not that far apart. End game would be about 175 million in year 3. We are going to have to tack a year onto duration however as management is not going to want to start this over in a year nor will the NMB.
I suspect when all is said and done will will fall somewhere around 17-18%/4/3/3. The question is will it be now or in 5 years.

 

It will be as long as the members want it to be. No way 5 passes memat at a COL percentage

 

That's not the biggest question. The real questions will be how many jobs will we sell out by giving them more flexibility in JV scope? How many jobs should we not (re)gain by agreeing to a disgusting "pay no credit" pittance to our already industry lagging vacation? How many jobs will we lose by selling XX% of OE trip drops? Adding a 2 year new hire freeze? Virtual basing? Etc.

Then take a couple percent off that initial raise, plus insert an unlimited negative variable to lower it further. A variable that management directly controls, in direct proportion to them deciding how much money to take from us to specifically give to themselves?

There are so many poison pills in this thing, and zero sign that they will drop them, that the only path seems to be winding the clock to a legal strike, however long that takes. Meanwhile, let them find the pilots they need while we plummet further below our competitors.

 

I'm going to use that line. When I do, I'll utter a silent "thank you" to boog123.

 

[QUOTE=gloopy;2203661]That's not the biggest question. The real questions will be how many jobs will we sell out by giving them more flexibility in JV scope? How many jobs should we not (re)gain by agreeing to a disgusting "pay no credit" pittance to our already industry lagging vacation? How many jobs will we lose by selling XX% of OE trip drops? Adding a 2 year new hire freeze? Virtual basing? Etc.

Then take a couple percent off that initial raise, plus insert an unlimited negative variable to lower it further. A variable that management directly controls, in direct proportion to them deciding how much money to take from us to specifically give to themselves?

Does management not directly control that varible already?

 

If they did, why are they asking for it to be added to C2015?

 

Can't they just award themselves a cash bonus of any size they choose by Dec 31 and reduce or eliminate profit sharing?

 

I've had nothing but positive interaction with the FAs over contract discussions. When engaged with FAs in any sort of contract discussion, my first and only point is SCOPE. In an international category, this is amplified because of the higher FA to Pilot ratio. I mention how we are doing our best to hold onto the international widebody flying. When I state "We are fighting to keep tonight's flight on a Delta airplane instead of losing it to a JV. If our contract saves the jobs of the three pilots flying you to Rome this evening, we have also saved the jobs of the 11 FAs on board." It is a clear and direct way of pointing out how they benefit from our contract efforts.

Scope is the most important section of our contract. It's up to us to educate other employee groups what we are fighting for.