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Again, I am pretty sure that's not the exact same measure. Makes sense that it would include some 737 flying that isn't included in the new contract metric.
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Originally Posted by BtoA
(Post 2220076)
So, while we are growing as an airline with thousands more pilots, our 'protection' will be that we will fly at least 650,000 international hours. Which, is less than we flew in 2014? Meanwhile, how big was the increase in domestic hours? They disregard the contractual obligations to us and then tell us it is no big deal because we are still flying almost as many hours as we did before. No growth. No protected jobs.
This is bad for us. Very bad. I don't understand why they are spinning it as a protection or positive thing. I guess we are all just too dumb to understand how scope concessions hurt us. The 650000 hour number is the total number of block hours flown at the time the company agreed to up the floor from 46.5 to 48.5 with the addition of Alitalia to the JV. The concept is we allow them to go back to 46.5 but keep worldwide protection at the level it was at then. We currently are flying about 680,000 hours worldwide contrary to the constant forum posts about our shrinking international. It's a give but overall with the other items mention changing in our favor I would take the new scope over what we have without factoring in any other aspects of the contract. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2220087)
The company is in business to make money. They are not going to agree to protect every block hour flown today. Would you in their place given the current volatility worldwide and the potential for future financial meltdowns? The international landscape no longer changes every few years it changes almost daily.
The 650000 hour number is the total number of block hours flown at the time the company agreed to up the floor from 46.5 to 48.5 with the addition of Alitalia to the JV. The concept is we allow them to go back to 46.5 but keep worldwide protection at the level it was at then. We currently are flying about 680,000 hours worldwide contrary to the constant forum posts about our shrinking international. It's a give but overall with the other items mention changing in our favor I would take the new scope over what we have without factoring in any other aspects of the contract. The company doesn't have to agree to fly any amount of trips to any theater. They can cancel JVs anytime, and it sets them free. Right now, they have made a contractual agreement with us that in return for allowing the JVs to share our flying, we are protected by a certain percentage of flying. Get your JV partners in line if they are flying too many hours for not enough money. If we are not getting 50% (or 48.5%) of the flying, the company is cheating. If you don't show up to work 1.5% of the time, you get fired. |
Originally Posted by BtoA
(Post 2220076)
This is bad for us. Very bad. I don't understand why they are spinning it as a protection or positive thing.
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2220087)
It's a give but overall with the other items mention changing in our favor I would take the new scope over what we have without factoring in any other aspects of the contract.
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Let's see:
Currently 50% not to go below 48.5% Or, 46.5% not to go below 45.5%. And this is better? |
Originally Posted by mikea72580
(Post 2219977)
Anyone know the answer to these questions since they weren't included in the NN?
- How many jobs does the 2% concession in the TAJV cost us in the Atlantic theater? - Since the US population is more than twice the other TAJV countries' population combined (322M/143M) one would think that the JV is flying US ticketed passengers by a margin of 2 to 1. The appropriate production balance would be around 33% Euro/66% US. What is the Company's rational for Delta pilots to fly less than half of the combined passengers, consisting primarily of Americans? The thing that's interesting to me is that since the JV was implemented, we took a large stake in VA, and that somehow doesn't end up counting against us in the TATL JV, even though we're circumventing it in a way that doesn't benefit the other partners. To further complicate matters, with the subsequent Brexit, you potentially lose the crowning jewel of the US-EU Open Skies agreement. I think the share we should have is a philosophical point, and could be the topic of very lengthy discussions. The point of section 1 changes in the NNP seems to be to protect what we have. One significant liability of our current agreement is that we're poorly protected against reductions in flying (cutting back one A380 flown by two pilots = cutting back a 767 flown by 6). If EASK's is the only metric, and flying is pulled down, we hurt disproportionately more. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2220087)
The company is in business to make money. They are not going to agree to protect every block hour flown today. Would you in their place given the current volatility worldwide and the potential for future financial meltdowns? The international landscape no longer changes every few years it changes almost daily.
The 650000 hour number is the total number of block hours flown at the time the company agreed to up the floor from 46.5 to 48.5 with the addition of Alitalia to the JV. The concept is we allow them to go back to 46.5 but keep worldwide protection at the level it was at then. We currently are flying about 680,000 hours worldwide contrary to the constant forum posts about our shrinking international. It's a give but overall with the other items mention changing in our favor I would take the new scope over what we have without factoring in any other aspects of the contract. My guess is that will give Delta a lot of room to shrink our international operations and still be above the 46.5%. |
Originally Posted by Schwanker
(Post 2220119)
Let's see:
Currently 50% not to go below 48.5% Or, 46.5% not to go below 45.5%. And this is better? Current baseline 50% / 48.5% due to operational buffer. TA baseline 47.5%, 2 year average of 46.5% |
All the contract language doesn't matter.
It is not enforceable. After 2 years of non compliance we will file a grievance and after many more months of delay we will all get a check for $1200. The positions lost forever. |
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