TAJV
10-17-2016 | 12:58 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From contract FAQ's:
Last year the Transatlantic Block Hours constituted about 390,000 hours out of a total of about 687,000 international hours.
and,
Over the last 12 months, Delta has maintained 47.7% EASKs.
So, ... a little rough math:
390,000/47.7 = 8,176 hours = 1%
A further 1.2% drop from 47.7 to 46.5% = 1.2% reduction in TA block hours.
1.2 x 8176 = 9,811 hrs per year.
9,811/365 = 26.8 hrs/day
26.8 hrs/day = 8.9 hrs per pilot per day for a three man crew.
That may be a little off, but like the previous poster has said, the 30,000 hours relates to the Global block hour floor, not the transatlantic JV hours.
Hope that helps.
Last year the Transatlantic Block Hours constituted about 390,000 hours out of a total of about 687,000 international hours.
and,
Over the last 12 months, Delta has maintained 47.7% EASKs.
So, ... a little rough math:
390,000/47.7 = 8,176 hours = 1%
A further 1.2% drop from 47.7 to 46.5% = 1.2% reduction in TA block hours.
1.2 x 8176 = 9,811 hrs per year.
9,811/365 = 26.8 hrs/day
26.8 hrs/day = 8.9 hrs per pilot per day for a three man crew.
That may be a little off, but like the previous poster has said, the 30,000 hours relates to the Global block hour floor, not the transatlantic JV hours.
Hope that helps.
Is that 26.8 hrs/day aircraft or pilot block hours?
10-17-2016 | 05:05 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: Moving left
Agreed with two of your three points. The company violated the contract and the compromise settlement was just that, a "compromise settlement." There was a significant risk of the adjudication being less, even zero. For the company there was a risk of the adjudication being more. It was a compromise and that compromise was the largest scope grievance settlement in history.
Contract Admin published a great deal of data on the effect on jobs, which if the company had hired for those positions was 60 positions made up of 20 Captains and 40 First Officers.
We still have the 48.5% measurement metric which now triggers a new Global BH protection which is 75,000 Widebody BH more than what is currently protected by the Virgin agreement (although that agreement measures in ASK, not BH).
You are right on a great many of your points. I would just encourage you to make your best case and not dilute your message with hyperbole and exaggeration. The data is there to support you and your support for good scope is appreciated by all Delta pilots.
Contract Admin published a great deal of data on the effect on jobs, which if the company had hired for those positions was 60 positions made up of 20 Captains and 40 First Officers.
We still have the 48.5% measurement metric which now triggers a new Global BH protection which is 75,000 Widebody BH more than what is currently protected by the Virgin agreement (although that agreement measures in ASK, not BH).
You are right on a great many of your points. I would just encourage you to make your best case and not dilute your message with hyperbole and exaggeration. The data is there to support you and your support for good scope is appreciated by all Delta pilots.
I read your posts, and you seem to be saying that this scope change isn't a bad deal for us. I disagree. I think the data is on my side.
10-17-2016 | 06:33 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From contract FAQ's:
Last year the Transatlantic Block Hours constituted about 390,000 hours out of a total of about 687,000 international hours.
and,
Over the last 12 months, Delta has maintained 47.7% EASKs.
So, ... a little rough math:
390,000/47.7 = 8,176 hours = 1%
A further 1.2% drop from 47.7 to 46.5% = 1.2% reduction in TA block hours.
1.2 x 8176 = 9,811 hrs per year.
9,811/365 = 26.8 hrs/day
26.8 hrs/day = 8.9 hrs per pilot per day for a three man crew.
That may be a little off, but like the previous poster has said, the 30,000 hours relates to the Global block hour floor, not the transatlantic JV hours.
Hope that helps.
Last year the Transatlantic Block Hours constituted about 390,000 hours out of a total of about 687,000 international hours.
and,
Over the last 12 months, Delta has maintained 47.7% EASKs.
So, ... a little rough math:
390,000/47.7 = 8,176 hours = 1%
A further 1.2% drop from 47.7 to 46.5% = 1.2% reduction in TA block hours.
1.2 x 8176 = 9,811 hrs per year.
9,811/365 = 26.8 hrs/day
26.8 hrs/day = 8.9 hrs per pilot per day for a three man crew.
That may be a little off, but like the previous poster has said, the 30,000 hours relates to the Global block hour floor, not the transatlantic JV hours.
Hope that helps.
10-18-2016 | 06:07 AM
#124
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
I'm tracking down the actual math on that from the source. When I get it I will post it.
10-18-2016 | 06:18 AM
#125
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
In the example above that would be aircraft block hours. It matches the earlier posts as well as Contract Admin's information a year ago.
Just curious; when I post an explainer HERE, why does everyone keep arguing about it? No jobs are lost, but we are clearly down jobs from what could have been in an imaginary world where Air France/KLM were not running for their life and Delta had more control over the situation.
What is the point?
Why does no one have much interest in the scope improvements that benefit us?
Why must everything be negative on social media?
Maybe Ben can explain it to me now that he has seen a bit of both sides.
Just curious; when I post an explainer HERE, why does everyone keep arguing about it? No jobs are lost, but we are clearly down jobs from what could have been in an imaginary world where Air France/KLM were not running for their life and Delta had more control over the situation.
What is the point?
Why does no one have much interest in the scope improvements that benefit us?
Why must everything be negative on social media?
Maybe Ben can explain it to me now that he has seen a bit of both sides.
10-18-2016 | 06:22 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,869
Likes: 187
In the example above that would be aircraft block hours. It matches the earlier posts as well as Contract Admin's information a year ago.
Just curious, when I post an explainer HERE, why everyone keeps arguing about it, trying to catch out some ALPA comm guy, just to have something to throw at a volunteer.
What is the point?
Just curious, when I post an explainer HERE, why everyone keeps arguing about it, trying to catch out some ALPA comm guy, just to have something to throw at a volunteer.
What is the point?
10-18-2016 | 07:21 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,215
Likes: 664
From: ir.delta.com
From contract FAQ's:
Last year the Transatlantic Block Hours constituted about 390,000 hours out of a total of about 687,000 international hours.
and,
Over the last 12 months, Delta has maintained 47.7% EASKs.
So, ... a little rough math:
390,000/47.7 = 8,176 hours = 1%
A further 1.2% drop from 47.7 to 46.5% = 1.2% reduction in TA block hours.
1.2 x 8176 = 9,811 hrs per year.
9,811/365 = 26.8 hrs/day
26.8 hrs/day = 8.9 hrs per pilot per day for a three man crew.
That may be a little off, but like the previous poster has said, the 30,000 hours relates to the Global block hour floor, not the transatlantic JV hours.
Hope that helps.
Last year the Transatlantic Block Hours constituted about 390,000 hours out of a total of about 687,000 international hours.
and,
Over the last 12 months, Delta has maintained 47.7% EASKs.
So, ... a little rough math:
390,000/47.7 = 8,176 hours = 1%
A further 1.2% drop from 47.7 to 46.5% = 1.2% reduction in TA block hours.
1.2 x 8176 = 9,811 hrs per year.
9,811/365 = 26.8 hrs/day
26.8 hrs/day = 8.9 hrs per pilot per day for a three man crew.
That may be a little off, but like the previous poster has said, the 30,000 hours relates to the Global block hour floor, not the transatlantic JV hours.
Hope that helps.
In your example we could lose 1 transatlantic flight (8176 block hours) and another 28,833 from other theaters and still be in compliance. How is this not a huge give?
687,000 - 650,000 = 37,000
37,000 - 8176 = 28,833
28,833 / 8176 (1 trans Atlantic flight equivalent) = 3.5 flights
In your example 1 trans Atlantic flight plus 3.5 equally long flights from other theaters = 4.5 international flights. This is the amount of reduction allowed and still be in compliance.
8176 / 365 = 22.4
22.4 / 2 for round trip = 11.2
11.2 is a long transatlantic flight so the number is more like 5 international round trip flights lost and still able to comply.
10-18-2016 | 09:41 AM
#128
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
So, here is the real math on the Transatlantic JV that I was looking for.
Through October 16.
Total TA EASK's (in Millions) : 168,414.
Delta Share = 80,410 or 80,410/168,414 = 47.7% of total
If we drop down to 46.5% of the total,
Delta share becomes .465 x 168,414 = 78,312
We lose 2,098 EASK's worth of flying
In that same time frame, Delta operated 44,459 frequencies.
There is a leap day in 2016 so 44,459/366 = 121.47 frequencies/day. Divide that number by two to get 60.736 daily roundtrips.
Delta's 80,410 EASK's/60.736 daily Delta round trips = 1,323.9 EASK's/roundtrip.
2098 EASK loss/ 1323.9 EASK's per trip = 1.58 daily round trips.
Don't know how that exactly relates to the quoted block hour numbers from the Contract FAQ.
Still awake?
Through October 16.
Total TA EASK's (in Millions) : 168,414.
Delta Share = 80,410 or 80,410/168,414 = 47.7% of total
If we drop down to 46.5% of the total,
Delta share becomes .465 x 168,414 = 78,312
We lose 2,098 EASK's worth of flying
In that same time frame, Delta operated 44,459 frequencies.
There is a leap day in 2016 so 44,459/366 = 121.47 frequencies/day. Divide that number by two to get 60.736 daily roundtrips.
Delta's 80,410 EASK's/60.736 daily Delta round trips = 1,323.9 EASK's/roundtrip.
2098 EASK loss/ 1323.9 EASK's per trip = 1.58 daily round trips.
Don't know how that exactly relates to the quoted block hour numbers from the Contract FAQ.
Still awake?
10-18-2016 | 10:26 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
So, here is the real math on the Transatlantic JV that I was looking for.
Through October 16.
Total TA EASK's (in Millions) : 168,414.
Delta Share = 80,410 or 80,410/168,414 = 47.7% of total
If we drop down to 46.5% of the total,
Delta share becomes .465 x 168,414 = 78,312
We lose 2,098 EASK's worth of flying
In that same time frame, Delta operated 44,459 frequencies.
There is a leap day in 2016 so 44,459/366 = 121.47 frequencies/day. Divide that number by two to get 60.736 daily roundtrips.
Delta's 80,410 EASK's/60.736 daily Delta round trips = 1,323.9 EASK's/roundtrip.
2098 EASK loss/ 1323.9 EASK's per trip = 1.58 daily round trips.
Don't know how that exactly relates to the quoted block hour numbers from the Contract FAQ.
Still awake?
Through October 16.
Total TA EASK's (in Millions) : 168,414.
Delta Share = 80,410 or 80,410/168,414 = 47.7% of total
If we drop down to 46.5% of the total,
Delta share becomes .465 x 168,414 = 78,312
We lose 2,098 EASK's worth of flying
In that same time frame, Delta operated 44,459 frequencies.
There is a leap day in 2016 so 44,459/366 = 121.47 frequencies/day. Divide that number by two to get 60.736 daily roundtrips.
Delta's 80,410 EASK's/60.736 daily Delta round trips = 1,323.9 EASK's/roundtrip.
2098 EASK loss/ 1323.9 EASK's per trip = 1.58 daily round trips.
Don't know how that exactly relates to the quoted block hour numbers from the Contract FAQ.
Still awake?
One problem I have with your accounting. You say these are numbers through Oct. If you're talking calendar year, you're fudging numbers in dividing flight frequency by 366. The loss is actually 2 daily round trips per day if we're talking calendar year for all your figures above. And that's 2 round trips per day below our already out of compliance 47.7%. Use the actual 50% target, not the 48.5% floor (now ceiling) in current contract, and we get a more accurate picture of what we're giving away in metrics.
10-18-2016 | 10:36 AM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
1P5b refers to 650,000 global aircraft block hours.
In your example we could lose 1 transatlantic flight (8176 block hours) and another 28,833 from other theaters and still be in compliance. How is this not a huge give?
687,000 - 650,000 = 37,000
37,000 - 8176 = 28,833
28,833 / 8176 (1 trans Atlantic flight equivalent) = 3.5 flights
In your example 1 trans Atlantic flight plus 3.5 equally long flights from other theaters = 4.5 international flights. This is the amount of reduction allowed and still be in compliance.
8176 / 365 = 22.4
22.4 / 2 for round trip = 11.2
11.2 is a long transatlantic flight so the number is more like 5 international round trip flights lost and still able to comply.
In your example we could lose 1 transatlantic flight (8176 block hours) and another 28,833 from other theaters and still be in compliance. How is this not a huge give?
687,000 - 650,000 = 37,000
37,000 - 8176 = 28,833
28,833 / 8176 (1 trans Atlantic flight equivalent) = 3.5 flights
In your example 1 trans Atlantic flight plus 3.5 equally long flights from other theaters = 4.5 international flights. This is the amount of reduction allowed and still be in compliance.
8176 / 365 = 22.4
22.4 / 2 for round trip = 11.2
11.2 is a long transatlantic flight so the number is more like 5 international round trip flights lost and still able to comply.
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