They only show you what they want you to see. Like any good magician. Having said that, I'd rather they start the road show circuit by trying to hood wink us instead of screaming at us with the PEB threat.

Having said that, I don't think they can say with any certainty exactly what Delta will do with our INTL flying so we can't know how we are going to be affected. All they can do is speculate best and worst case scenarios.

I'm leaning towards a soft yes. But still need to finish reading the communications and TA. It's way better than the last TA and is somewhat better than the current TA.

Aside from the money, I see small improvements but big give backs. T asked how it hits QOL. JV scope will reduce the number of WB jobs, period dot. Now I don't plan to fly one of those but every WB CA job not there is a senior NB FO sitting at the top of my category, that hurts my QOL. You can't argue in any coherent way that the TA sick policy is better than our current one (not the TA1 overreach, don't throw that red herring). OE trip pulls is a negative. It will limit them or at the least take trips of open time thus reducing ones ability to manipulate the his schedule. QOL hit.

Those big three there, to me, outweigh the small improvements. Even it they are a wash, you can't say this TA is "significantly superior" to what we have.

Is the money worth the downward trend and the lowered base from which to negotiate the next contract? I think that depends on how long you have left.

Can someone please explain to me what Night credit is and why it matters? I don't think this is night pay - is it?

Scoop :confused:

The JV scope can no longer be violated via force majeure... we now have a baseline global protection vice just isolated to the the atlantic and the AF/KL was maintained as EASKS. That is a good thing.

I see the sick as a minimal effect. OE trip pulls are nearly useless to the company. Yeah, it's a negative, but I don't think it will even be noticeable to us.

So, we've got those. I see QOL increases with vacation increases, pay bumps (yes pay does help QOL), and a meager but present DC increase. That significant outweighs what you define as negative.

On top of that, I saw a potential significant upside by turning the TA back last year. We got that, in my opinion, plus full retro. I see very minimal potential for upside beyond this, and potentially significant downside. That's not fear mongering- that is my thoughtful analysis on how this will go. This was my expected outcome from my no vote last year. I don't see the merit in another one.

Its duty pay which is normally 1 for 2. Late night it will be 1 for 1.5.

I think pay is getting harder to calculate than 117 rest. But this is a plus so I'll try not to complain.

Too late?

It's a form of credit which could lead to higher credit on a trip. Don't really see it as having a big impact with our 5:15 ADG.

Denny

Just logged back on.

My apologies for hurting Free Bird's feelings! Please, Free Bird, come back and post some more!

Truth be told, I was in a fairly good mood when posting earlier and was throwing those comments out in an endearing way. My apologies if they seemed middle-school-ish or denigrating to Free Bird's character.

Gotta hop on another flight. That's all you forum-ites get. :)

The concessions are worth $140M.
The gains are worth $3.3B.

Essentially for every $1 we gave (it is a negotiation) we are getting $25.
That's not a wash. IMO it is superior to our curent contract. Whether 25-1 is "significantly superior" is in the eyes of the beholder.

And whether it's a double or a triple (in homage to the World Series) is also subjective. But it does advance the game.

I think the union numbers are very optimistic. For example, the gains assume profit sharing levels remain the same for the duration. The numbers they presented for jobs lost are very low which in turn would affect the numbers for concessions.

Not saying to vote yes or no....but realize the union is stretching the truth with the numbers they present.