We always hear something similar to this though. The real acid test is if this is actually true, why couldn't we give the company a 2:1 return on a nice chunk of that and "Settle" for a mere 3 Billion and give back 300 Million in exchange for no concessions: 150M in direct shareholder return and 150M to BCRF. Shirley they would jump on that? If not, why not?

I have no doubt that its a net gain for us. That's not the point. I do think we frequently undervalue the concessions.

for every $1 in concessions we are getting $25.....O-M-G!!!

Lets reopen and offer to concede to reduce all hourly rates to $0.....and bank that 25x increase in compensation right now!:D

I'd add that we overvalue some gains as well. For example, TAJV production balance and application of 3.b.4 in recent years did not yield the value that was intended. Now look at the much heralded 650,000 block hour floor. Seems there's a giant loop hole allowing the company to fall below 650,000 international WB hours while meeting the TAJV balance % with reduced flying. Granted, the same scenario could happen with current PWA, but don't try to sell it as some huge win and value added when it's value is closer to neutral.

This may not be a home run (I think it is close) but I don't see the QOL complaints...I see this as big QOL improvement. I can work 2 or 3 days less a month and work under the same budget is the best QOL improvement I can imagine. I've never come close to 100 hrs of SL, and if I do this TA is a minor inconvenience. The rest is small potatoes on the plus and minus side (with many more of those being on the plus side)

True - but they are individuals. They are not "the forum." More often then not 99% of these claims are quickly challenged.

Do me a favor (this applies to everyone who posts on here) go in your bathroom, look in the mirror. That guy looking back at you - He is "the Forum" as much as anyone else.

I'm going with the Otter defense, "The issue is not whether a few posters take liberties with the truth........... they do. But you cant hold a whole Forum responsible for the postings of a few sick, perverted individuals......."

Hell - I'll just let Otter tell it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYb_anBMus

I am not going to sit around here and read about you bad mouthing the United States of America! :D


Scoop :)

Compared to chitchat, this place looks like the Harvard Debate Club...and I mean that in a good way. Scoop, you and 80 are doing a great job keeping it civilized around here. Thanks for the effort.

Typical response from a relatively senior 'Elliot' thinking 'pull up the ladder... I've got mine mentality'. The 'Yes' votes on this POS TA will be the senior pilots with only a few years remaining. Chasing the $$$ and could care less about every Delta pilots QOL... lowering the industry bar. No Vote.

Whale, I think this t/a is being received the same way from senior and junior pilots. Are you saying all the junior guys are voting no and all the senior guys are voting yes? If so, that has not been my understanding. I hear Elliot's point. It may have been a bit aggressive.

How about this for QOL. The money from this TA will allow you, as in Y O U, to drop at least one trip every other month and still make the same amount of money you, as in Y O U, do now. Tell me anything in this TA QOL wise that even marginally compares to this? And I'm being conservative when I say one trip every other month.

Not even going to respond to the rest of your post.

Denny

I've been stunned - absolutely stunned - by the number of vehement no voters from the last TA (some who called me bad names for supporting the last TA :) ) who will be voting yes this time. They are more logical and much less dogmatic than I thought they were. Of course they are now being called bad names too much to their chagrin.

Is this TA Nirvana? No. But it's a not a small amount of money and I don't see any change in QOL. I mean, I really don't see any change in this job neutral TA that would cause someone to work more. In fact, you could work 30% less for the same pay - as has been repeated more than once. (But of course most people won't. Irony.)

As far as lowering the industry bar goes - American, Southwest and United sure seem to like our TA. American pilots want to join ALPA, SWA almost reopened negotiations, and United pilots want their January 1 pay raise.

And finally, I have not heard a logical argument, not one, from the no crowd of what their plan is if this TA is voted down. Go back for more is all I've heard. When? 2 years. Just one problem. We already are going back for more in 2 years even if we vote yes.