HighFlight

What about your total lack of self respect, allowing yourself to believe in a fairy tale? Flow wasn't on the table. Anyone with an internet connection and a lick of sense knew that last year, this year, and going into this TA negotiation.

If you're going to pretend to be upset about the lack of a flow, you should find it equally egregious that they didn't offer us non-rev status on all their flights to the moon.

Unpilot

This TA will pass with a solid majority. The folks with their "secret FB page" will continue to stew and b!tch about everything.

Just because this is a contract extension does not mean that we won't see more LAO's.

Yumyum

Sorry about your marriage. You should be more open. Did it ever occur to you that she might like to be 👅 there?

clueless

I’m all about the bird in the hand sentiment, but we’ve got a decent bird in our hand right now and we will have that bird in our hand through 2018 if we so choose. Sure, we can trade that bird for a slightly different bird, or we can foresee that we can probably use next year to force those other two birds to want to be in our hand...ok...taking the metaphor a little far, but as good as this TA may or may not seem, I think we can do better.

This contract is great for the guys that are making Endeavor their retirement airline...they get raises, 401K, vacation, Long Call...The pay for the new guy is essentially a pay cut. The retirement benefits for the new guy are nil. Only 15% of reserve lines are Long Call? That will go senior so that doesn’t benefit the new guy either. Plus increasing the reserve day from 14 hours to 15 hours? Once again, not a good deal for the new guy. 18 month seat lock? Screwing the new guy. Co-domicile might help a few pilots for a few minor reasons, but it is solely to save the company money and takes away opportunity from pilots. 12 days off is good, but that’s about the only thing in this contract that will benefit the new guy. Commuter stuff is cool too, but really nothing too earth shattering. Long/short stay hotels...20 hour layover for a good hotel? I think that should be a little lower.

Attracting new pilots to the company is the objective, right? To me, this TA does nothing for the new guy...industry leading pay rates are great, but we have had these rates for a few years...with the new rates, we'd pay a new hire less than a new hire made for the past two years.

Ok I know you older guys had it tough and we shouldn’t be complaining, but that sucks that you were in the industry when things weren’t great. I feel for you I truly do, but we aren’t in that situation. And neither are you anymore.

I think we can do better.

(Please note that I am not complaining about a flow.)

Bartok

We haven't had leading rates at all.

Temporary retention bonus.

Why is this such a hard concept?

4myfamily

You build a great case for new hire pilots to not like this TA. If that is the case the hiring will slow and Delta will be back at the table to want more for new hires so we vote yes and get this TA locked in and then more when they can’t hire. Sounds like a winning plan.

HighFlight

And yet, the other regionals are still trying to catch up to us. I'd call that leading the pack. All the others have bonuses too. Ours just happened to be the best out there because everyone at EDV benefited from it, not just the new hires. That was a big sway in my decision coming here. I liked the idea of a company taking care of all of us, not just FYFOs.

Bartok

The companies love the bonus idea.

It's something they can easily stop if things go south.

They are not locked in like with hard pay rates.

We have an opportunity to change that.

tonsterboy5

As someone who is considering Endeavor and piedmont I would like some better career progression than this is offering. I don't think a "flow" is needed nor is the "dgi". The reason I say this is the interview wastes both the applicants and deltas time if Delta knows ahead of time they don't want the individual for whatever reason. A flow can have people bypass minimums like a degree or with past problems that would prevent them from being hired normally and an airline shouldn't be forced to advance their career. I would much rather see something like "30% of delta new hires must come from edv" this will ensure that the best of endeavors pilots move on, and in a timely fashion. With the large amount of hiring delta will do in the next few years this would also mean the fastest progression while allowing Delta to pick the best endeavor pilots.

Green Needles

The company can give the new guys an extra $10,000 without giving the rest of us anything. They'll be making more 1st year than captains we're not that long ago. Tell me again how bad they have it.

I'm pretty cynical about this place and airlines in general, but this TA is a better deal than what we have now for most people here. The cuts for us lazy people that try to work as little as possible aren't as bad as what I anticipated. Lock in sorta permanent-ish rates, they're better than a temporary bonus. What do I know though? I'll get back to walking uphill both ways to school barefoot in the snow.