Originally Posted by theUpsideDown

The company is on the third promised time frame now (which shows you how serious they take it). But that's what happens in fairy tales.

Honestly all this is crap. Anyone who can fly will be at the majors in five years or less from today if they want to. If you're the junior bastard on the next list for some unfortunate reason your combined pay and qol will be greater than 100% of the regional pilots 3 yrs after you move on (yes you'll work weekends and holidays). You might be furlough fodder but I doubt it.

These dgi/flow programs are actually meant to keep guys in the regionals for an additional year or two. When endeavor offers something like a DGI they are ignoring the future where pilots here will be saying to themselves, "United and American want me now, six months into being a captain but i could wait another 1.5 years and have a shot at Delta. But now I've gotta say no to these legacy guys praying Delta won't do me like they've done before".

Of course the dgi will change and morph. That's why the company doesn't want it in writing. They've got to balance the need for pilots to remain at endeavor for another year or two instead of jumping somewhere else.

The best thing the union can do is continue to push the company to improve endeavor and stay ahead so we're never in the same dec 2014 position again. Endeavor management seems to understand all this, it's just getting Delta management to agree.

If you all want meaningful guaranteed career progression i politely suggest you stop defending or attacking the dgi. It is a fantasy right now, with no contractual meaning except for a privileged few protected by a clever LOA. Whenever someone brings it up, simply reply that you are too old for fairy tales.

Don't address it, stop playing lawyer by quoting non binding memos. If it comes up in discussion just move the conversation on to something else. The sooner EDV management can make DAL management understand the excitement level of the DGI is null, the sooner we will get something meaninful.

Originally Posted by Yumyum

I’ll simplify it. If Delta is your goal...don’t work for Endeavor. The end!

Originally Posted by Casualinterest

There's nothing simple about it. I know several people here with ots hires this year. I imagine with a strong resume and good record (plus an internal rec) you have just a decent shot as someone from another regional

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Originally Posted by Baradium

My read on it is you get the exact same shot as anyone else OTS as well as having the interview programs to help get your foot in the door. The interview panels are not interested in screwing people to help Endeavor staff.

Originally Posted by Baradium

My read on it is you get the exact same shot as anyone else OTS as well as having the interview programs to help get your foot in the door. The interview panels are not interested in screwing people to help Endeavor staff.

Originally Posted by Avroman

There were some awfully shady patterns when it came to hiring sim instructors and check airman... sure smelled of "gentlemen's agreements" depending on Endeavor's training needs at the time

Originally Posted by Baradium

There was a lot of variation in the people who were sim instructors and check airmen at least on the Memphis end of things. I understand the legacy XJ program was much better, but depending on who remained check airmen there were a good number who had been regional lifers and the lifers as a whole had a hard time.

Overall there were people I was somewhat surprised got it and those who I thought really should have that didn't. There are a good number I really think should have gotten the nod, but being a LCA didn't seem to be a factor in the mix.

Originally Posted by HighFlight

My time at EDV is short, but I agree with the sentiment that a lot of great people got passed over that would have been assets for DL. Perhaps they did not prepare well enough, or the HR panel was tougher that day (stories of panel A passing everyone and panel B failing everyone are out there). I've had a couple admit to me that they did not prepare well enough, and took responsibility for losing the job.

But sitting back and watching some truly good pilots, mentors, and just damn good people getting told that they weren't DL material has caused me not to even put in my app. Might seem silly to those who go or are dying to get there, but I'd rather not be a part of a culture that turns such people away.

Originally Posted by HighFlight

My time at EDV is short, but I agree with the sentiment that a lot of great people got passed over that would have been assets for DL. Perhaps they did not prepare well enough, or the HR panel was tougher that day (stories of panel A passing everyone and panel B failing everyone are out there). I've had a couple admit to me that they did not prepare well enough, and took responsibility for losing the job.

But sitting back and watching some truly good pilots, mentors, and just damn good people getting told that they weren't DL material has caused me not to even put in my app. Might seem silly to those who go or are dying to get there, but I'd rather not be a part of a culture that turns such people away.

Originally Posted by HighFlight

But sitting back and watching some truly good pilots, mentors, and just damn good people getting told that they weren't DL material has caused me not to even put in my app. Might seem silly to those who go or are dying to get there, but I'd rather not be a part of a culture that turns such people away.