DGI Rates
01-19-2019, 03:00 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Originally Posted by Mesabah
You didn't answer the question, the SSP is a reduced program from even the DGI; Should all Endeavor pilots get a shot at the SSP before the DGI?
But no, there is no requirement for anyone who was not on property at bankruptcy to get an SSP interview. That was given to the pilot group as part of the bankruptcy agreement.
01-19-2019, 05:06 PM
#82
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by Baradium
That's not what you asked. You asked an either or and I said they should get one of the two.
But no, there is no requirement for anyone who was not on property at bankruptcy to get an SSP interview. That was given to the pilot group as part of the bankruptcy agreement.
But no, there is no requirement for anyone who was not on property at bankruptcy to get an SSP interview. That was given to the pilot group as part of the bankruptcy agreement.
01-19-2019, 05:33 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Originally Posted by Mesabah
So if we were to head into bankruptcy again, we should perhaps get an SSP again for a concessionary agreement?
01-19-2019, 10:56 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Originally Posted by Mesabah
If we had a flow, we would probably still be under the bankruptcy contract. They pay us now $30-$50K more a year not to have a flow. If we were going to get one, it would have already happened.
01-20-2019, 05:29 AM
#85
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by atpcliff
The Pilot Shortage is getting worse. I think AA/UAL and DAL will all at least have flow, and they may start having to hire non-pilots off the street, as the military, and most other non-US airlines do...
As much as I believe the pilot shortage is beneficial for pilots, I’m not sitting back waiting on the pilot shortage to create a job or a flow for me.
I might not wear the hat, and my shoes don’t have laces, but I do make the galley announcement and I do greet passengers when they’re boarding (as much as practicable). I don’t do this because delta wants me to...I do it for the passengers who I want to have a good flying experience so next time they travel, they want to fly again....
Notice how I didn’t specify a good delta experience...because I don’t plan on being at 9E forever. I would love to go to delta, but if delta doesn’t want me, so be it. I still want these passengers to have the best experience they can so that they keep buying plane tickets.
*steps down off pedestal
But still this reserve grid is gdbs...and the shuttle...ugh I just gotta jeep on jeeping on
01-20-2019, 05:46 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 895
Originally Posted by atpcliff
The Pilot Shortage is getting worse. I think AA/UAL and DAL will all at least have flow, and they may start having to hire non-pilots off the street, as the military, and most other non-US airlines do...
If Delta was ever going to have a flow, they would not be spending the money on Propel. Delta will never allow a pilot into an indoc class that they haven’t vetted to their standards.
GP
01-20-2019, 05:48 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 895
Originally Posted by clueless
That’s why Delta is doing its propel program so it can ‘propel’ these pilots through the ATP requirements and basically streamline the process.
Close but not quite. Delta actually has nothing to do with the students obtaining their R-ATP rating. That’s all on the student. Propel does create a clearer path for the student after the graduate.
GP
01-20-2019, 07:06 AM
#88
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,503
I think people tend to mischaracterize what legacy airlines want out of “flow.”
For them flow is a mechanism of assuring a fairly steady supply of pilots AT THE LOWEST PRICE POSSIBLE. The delta (no pun intended) in payment between even the most senior pilot at Endeavor and where the senior pilots at mainline will retire is over $200K. Yet the DCI guys do what? Maybe 45% of Delta’s flying?
The longer the legacies can keep their codeshares working on the “c-scales” of the regionals, the more they benefit.
Does anyone REALLY believe that the retired USAF O-5 or O-6 who flew a single seat fighter for 2500 hours until he was sent to a staff job ten years ago is a better candidate FOR 121 FLYING AT A MAJOR than someone who has successfully been doing 121 flying at a decent regional for the last five years? That the UPT class the retiree finished 19 YEARS AGO was really THAT MUCH better than the civilian ratings, type-ratings, and recurrent recurrency the regional guy has been through while the military guy has been working staff proposals? The idea is ludicrous.
What the majors REALLY want is competent pilots they can hire reasonably late in their careers, get 15 or 20 years of work out of them at an average pay well below the max pay, and then retire that guy and fins another 45 year old to replace him/her. What they DO NIT WANT is to hire everybody at age 25, have that person max out the pay scale at 37, and then continue to have to pay that person that max pay for another 27 years. Their pilot personnel costs would go through the roof.
Majors really don’t want flow, they want a trickle, enough to keep the pipeline filled but with upgrade times and flow times long enough to keep those pilots on the lowest pay scales they can fir the longest time they can do it while they continue to plug older and (career wise)cheaper OTS hires in above them in mainline seniority.
Oh, they’ll take a few very young OTS hires too, just to keep all the applicants hopes up, but the real incentive is to keep pilots working at the cheapest place possible for as long as possible.
Anybody who thinks differently is kidding themselves.
For them flow is a mechanism of assuring a fairly steady supply of pilots AT THE LOWEST PRICE POSSIBLE. The delta (no pun intended) in payment between even the most senior pilot at Endeavor and where the senior pilots at mainline will retire is over $200K. Yet the DCI guys do what? Maybe 45% of Delta’s flying?
The longer the legacies can keep their codeshares working on the “c-scales” of the regionals, the more they benefit.
Does anyone REALLY believe that the retired USAF O-5 or O-6 who flew a single seat fighter for 2500 hours until he was sent to a staff job ten years ago is a better candidate FOR 121 FLYING AT A MAJOR than someone who has successfully been doing 121 flying at a decent regional for the last five years? That the UPT class the retiree finished 19 YEARS AGO was really THAT MUCH better than the civilian ratings, type-ratings, and recurrent recurrency the regional guy has been through while the military guy has been working staff proposals? The idea is ludicrous.
What the majors REALLY want is competent pilots they can hire reasonably late in their careers, get 15 or 20 years of work out of them at an average pay well below the max pay, and then retire that guy and fins another 45 year old to replace him/her. What they DO NIT WANT is to hire everybody at age 25, have that person max out the pay scale at 37, and then continue to have to pay that person that max pay for another 27 years. Their pilot personnel costs would go through the roof.
Majors really don’t want flow, they want a trickle, enough to keep the pipeline filled but with upgrade times and flow times long enough to keep those pilots on the lowest pay scales they can fir the longest time they can do it while they continue to plug older and (career wise)cheaper OTS hires in above them in mainline seniority.
Oh, they’ll take a few very young OTS hires too, just to keep all the applicants hopes up, but the real incentive is to keep pilots working at the cheapest place possible for as long as possible.
Anybody who thinks differently is kidding themselves.
01-20-2019, 07:32 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Originally Posted by Excargodog
I think people tend to mischaracterize what legacy airlines want out of “flow.”
For them flow is a mechanism of assuring a fairly steady supply of pilots AT THE LOWEST PRICE POSSIBLE. The delta (no pun intended) in payment between even the most senior pilot at Endeavor and where the senior pilots at mainline will retire is over $200K. Yet the DCI guys do what? Maybe 45% of Delta’s flying?
The longer the legacies can keep their codeshares working on the “c-scales” of the regionals, the more they benefit.
Does anyone REALLY believe that the retired USAF O-5 or O-6 who flew a single seat fighter for 2500 hours until he was sent to a staff job ten years ago is a better candidate FOR 121 FLYING AT A MAJOR than someone who has successfully been doing 121 flying at a decent regional for the last five years? That the UPT class the retiree finished 19 YEARS AGO was really THAT MUCH better than the civilian ratings, type-ratings, and recurrent recurrency the regional guy has been through while the military guy has been working staff proposals? The idea is ludicrous.
What the majors REALLY want is competent pilots they can hire reasonably late in their careers, get 15 or 20 years of work out of them at an average pay well below the max pay, and then retire that guy and fins another 45 year old to replace him/her. What they DO NIT WANT is to hire everybody at age 25, have that person max out the pay scale at 37, and then continue to have to pay that person that max pay for another 27 years. Their pilot personnel costs would go through the roof.
Majors really don’t want flow, they want a trickle, enough to keep the pipeline filled but with upgrade times and flow times long enough to keep those pilots on the lowest pay scales they can fir the longest time they can do it while they continue to plug older and (career wise)cheaper OTS hires in above them in mainline seniority.
Oh, they’ll take a few very young OTS hires too, just to keep all the applicants hopes up, but the real incentive is to keep pilots working at the cheapest place possible for as long as possible.
Anybody who thinks differently is kidding themselves.
For them flow is a mechanism of assuring a fairly steady supply of pilots AT THE LOWEST PRICE POSSIBLE. The delta (no pun intended) in payment between even the most senior pilot at Endeavor and where the senior pilots at mainline will retire is over $200K. Yet the DCI guys do what? Maybe 45% of Delta’s flying?
The longer the legacies can keep their codeshares working on the “c-scales” of the regionals, the more they benefit.
Does anyone REALLY believe that the retired USAF O-5 or O-6 who flew a single seat fighter for 2500 hours until he was sent to a staff job ten years ago is a better candidate FOR 121 FLYING AT A MAJOR than someone who has successfully been doing 121 flying at a decent regional for the last five years? That the UPT class the retiree finished 19 YEARS AGO was really THAT MUCH better than the civilian ratings, type-ratings, and recurrent recurrency the regional guy has been through while the military guy has been working staff proposals? The idea is ludicrous.
What the majors REALLY want is competent pilots they can hire reasonably late in their careers, get 15 or 20 years of work out of them at an average pay well below the max pay, and then retire that guy and fins another 45 year old to replace him/her. What they DO NIT WANT is to hire everybody at age 25, have that person max out the pay scale at 37, and then continue to have to pay that person that max pay for another 27 years. Their pilot personnel costs would go through the roof.
Majors really don’t want flow, they want a trickle, enough to keep the pipeline filled but with upgrade times and flow times long enough to keep those pilots on the lowest pay scales they can fir the longest time they can do it while they continue to plug older and (career wise)cheaper OTS hires in above them in mainline seniority.
Oh, they’ll take a few very young OTS hires too, just to keep all the applicants hopes up, but the real incentive is to keep pilots working at the cheapest place possible for as long as possible.
Anybody who thinks differently is kidding themselves.
01-20-2019, 07:57 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
Originally Posted by Excargodog
That the UPT class the retiree finished 19 YEARS AGO was really THAT MUCH better than the civilian ratings, type-ratings, and recurrent recurrency the regional guy has been through while the military guy has been working staff proposals?
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