9E (Endeavor) or BK
12-09-2013, 08:52 PM
#22
Living the Dream
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Another RJ CA
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by madeinUSA
I guess I was just trying to enlighten the original poster about wages at a regional vs. working fast food. You're right, the company probably does love guys like me. In my defense, my number one preference bid is to avoid work. I used to get 17 days off and now am down to 12 working 95+ instead of 75 and making the same amount... sucks pretty bad. I wasn't bragging or saying how great life is, just stating the facts about this past year at 9E. I do however pocket 95% of my per diem and bring my own much healthier food. My personal choice of course.
As far as the fast food thing goes. According to Wiki " the minimum wage rate in 2009 was $7.25 per hour or $15,080 for the 2080 hours in a typical work year." I'm not sure if it really compares considering as an airline pilot you start out in that neighborhood, but if you stick with it you will probably retire making over $200,000 which even a McDonald's franchise owner would struggle to make.
As far as the fast food thing goes. According to Wiki " the minimum wage rate in 2009 was $7.25 per hour or $15,080 for the 2080 hours in a typical work year." I'm not sure if it really compares considering as an airline pilot you start out in that neighborhood, but if you stick with it you will probably retire making over $200,000 which even a McDonald's franchise owner would struggle to make.
1.Regional pilots are underpaid.
(I understand that many see a career as a "regional pilot" as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career. And while I personally have the same intentions the fact is that our duties and responsibilities are so poorly compensated for that I can create a tongue in cheek thread about pay comparison of a professional airline pilot to an entry level fast food employee position and have the economics actually favor the fast food employee!)
2. Overtime pay must be evaluated evenly.
So you credit 105hrs/month. A full time airline pilot with our contract credits 75. You are therefore working 40% more than full time. If a burger flipper worked overtime 40% they'd earn $35,880 per year which makes that career path earn roughly $20,000 more than you the first 5 years. Do you not understand that this imbalance is ridiculous?!
3. As you stated, you do not wish to work these extra hours, but you have been forced to. Wouldn't it be nice to be off and home and extra week per month? How can you defend a system which is built upon cheap labor that has no backbone to stand up and say no to predatory management tactics that have you leaving family and friends 20% more than you used to be while making a salary equivalent to a fast food employee? I don't understand if I am not making myself clear, or you are just not reading what I am saying, but for once and for all you are not paid enough for the educational requirements, duties, responsibilities, and time away from home that are being forced upon you. If you realize and agree with that then I cannot understand how you could possible submit an opposing argument to contradict these facts!
4. It is a result of the current state of our entry level positions to our career which is hindering pilot hiring and therefore creating a shortage of qualified applicants.
This is essentially the entire point of my thread. I used my current airline's contract to reinforce my arguments, but the same can be made for nearly any airline at the "regional" level. Although we fly thousands of passengers coast to coast daily, we've been forced to believe that we deserve less and should be happy with the opportunity to fly the flights we have. We have been led by various means to approve contracts that are financially equivalent to those which fast food employees are making attempts to achieve. If that realization does not upset you then I would like to apologize on your behalf to your high school economics teacher who has so cleared fail to give you a basic understanding of your labor's value.
12-09-2013, 09:02 PM
#23
Living the Dream
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Another RJ CA
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Left Handed
Burger King has a flight department? Do you get whoppers for the crew meals?
However I would personally put my opinion that whoppers are highly unlikely on corporate flights, as they are awful.
12-10-2013, 11:54 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
Since you've lost track of the point I attempted to make with my initial post let me reiterate it for you.
1.Regional pilots are underpaid.
(I understand that many see a career as a "regional pilot" as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career. And while I personally have the same intentions the fact is that our duties and responsibilities are so poorly compensated for that I can create a tongue in cheek thread about pay comparison of a professional airline pilot to an entry level fast food employee position and have the economics actually favor the fast food employee!)
2. Overtime pay must be evaluated evenly.
So you credit 105hrs/month. A full time airline pilot with our contract credits 75. You are therefore working 40% more than full time. If a burger flipper worked overtime 40% they'd earn $35,880 per year which makes that career path earn roughly $20,000 more than you the first 5 years. Do you not understand that this imbalance is ridiculous?!
3. As you stated, you do not wish to work these extra hours, but you have been forced to. Wouldn't it be nice to be off and home and extra week per month? How can you defend a system which is built upon cheap labor that has no backbone to stand up and say no to predatory management tactics that have you leaving family and friends 20% more than you used to be while making a salary equivalent to a fast food employee? I don't understand if I am not making myself clear, or you are just not reading what I am saying, but for once and for all you are not paid enough for the educational requirements, duties, responsibilities, and time away from home that are being forced upon you. If you realize and agree with that then I cannot understand how you could possible submit an opposing argument to contradict these facts!
4. It is a result of the current state of our entry level positions to our career which is hindering pilot hiring and therefore creating a shortage of qualified applicants.
This is essentially the entire point of my thread. I used my current airline's contract to reinforce my arguments, but the same can be made for nearly any airline at the "regional" level. Although we fly thousands of passengers coast to coast daily, we've been forced to believe that we deserve less and should be happy with the opportunity to fly the flights we have. We have been led by various means to approve contracts that are financially equivalent to those which fast food employees are making attempts to achieve. If that realization does not upset you then I would like to apologize on your behalf to your high school economics teacher who has so cleared fail to give you a basic understanding of your labor's value.
1.Regional pilots are underpaid.
(I understand that many see a career as a "regional pilot" as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career. And while I personally have the same intentions the fact is that our duties and responsibilities are so poorly compensated for that I can create a tongue in cheek thread about pay comparison of a professional airline pilot to an entry level fast food employee position and have the economics actually favor the fast food employee!)
2. Overtime pay must be evaluated evenly.
So you credit 105hrs/month. A full time airline pilot with our contract credits 75. You are therefore working 40% more than full time. If a burger flipper worked overtime 40% they'd earn $35,880 per year which makes that career path earn roughly $20,000 more than you the first 5 years. Do you not understand that this imbalance is ridiculous?!
3. As you stated, you do not wish to work these extra hours, but you have been forced to. Wouldn't it be nice to be off and home and extra week per month? How can you defend a system which is built upon cheap labor that has no backbone to stand up and say no to predatory management tactics that have you leaving family and friends 20% more than you used to be while making a salary equivalent to a fast food employee? I don't understand if I am not making myself clear, or you are just not reading what I am saying, but for once and for all you are not paid enough for the educational requirements, duties, responsibilities, and time away from home that are being forced upon you. If you realize and agree with that then I cannot understand how you could possible submit an opposing argument to contradict these facts!
4. It is a result of the current state of our entry level positions to our career which is hindering pilot hiring and therefore creating a shortage of qualified applicants.
This is essentially the entire point of my thread. I used my current airline's contract to reinforce my arguments, but the same can be made for nearly any airline at the "regional" level. Although we fly thousands of passengers coast to coast daily, we've been forced to believe that we deserve less and should be happy with the opportunity to fly the flights we have. We have been led by various means to approve contracts that are financially equivalent to those which fast food employees are making attempts to achieve. If that realization does not upset you then I would like to apologize on your behalf to your high school economics teacher who has so cleared fail to give you a basic understanding of your labor's value.
12-10-2013, 12:25 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 294
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
Since you've lost track of the point I attempted to make with my initial post let me reiterate it for you.
1.Regional pilots are underpaid.
(I understand that many see a career as a "regional pilot" as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career. And while I personally have the same intentions the fact is that our duties and responsibilities are so poorly compensated for that I can create a tongue in cheek thread about pay comparison of a professional airline pilot to an entry level fast food employee position and have the economics actually favor the fast food employee!)
2. Overtime pay must be evaluated evenly.
So you credit 105hrs/month. A full time airline pilot with our contract credits 75. You are therefore working 40% more than full time. If a burger flipper worked overtime 40% they'd earn $35,880 per year which makes that career path earn roughly $20,000 more than you the first 5 years. Do you not understand that this imbalance is ridiculous?!
3. As you stated, you do not wish to work these extra hours, but you have been forced to. Wouldn't it be nice to be off and home and extra week per month? How can you defend a system which is built upon cheap labor that has no backbone to stand up and say no to predatory management tactics that have you leaving family and friends 20% more than you used to be while making a salary equivalent to a fast food employee? I don't understand if I am not making myself clear, or you are just not reading what I am saying, but for once and for all you are not paid enough for the educational requirements, duties, responsibilities, and time away from home that are being forced upon you. If you realize and agree with that then I cannot understand how you could possible submit an opposing argument to contradict these facts!
4. It is a result of the current state of our entry level positions to our career which is hindering pilot hiring and therefore creating a shortage of qualified applicants.
This is essentially the entire point of my thread. I used my current airline's contract to reinforce my arguments, but the same can be made for nearly any airline at the "regional" level. Although we fly thousands of passengers coast to coast daily, we've been forced to believe that we deserve less and should be happy with the opportunity to fly the flights we have. We have been led by various means to approve contracts that are financially equivalent to those which fast food employees are making attempts to achieve. If that realization does not upset you then I would like to apologize on your behalf to your high school economics teacher who has so cleared fail to give you a basic understanding of your labor's value.
1.Regional pilots are underpaid.
(I understand that many see a career as a "regional pilot" as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career. And while I personally have the same intentions the fact is that our duties and responsibilities are so poorly compensated for that I can create a tongue in cheek thread about pay comparison of a professional airline pilot to an entry level fast food employee position and have the economics actually favor the fast food employee!)
2. Overtime pay must be evaluated evenly.
So you credit 105hrs/month. A full time airline pilot with our contract credits 75. You are therefore working 40% more than full time. If a burger flipper worked overtime 40% they'd earn $35,880 per year which makes that career path earn roughly $20,000 more than you the first 5 years. Do you not understand that this imbalance is ridiculous?!
3. As you stated, you do not wish to work these extra hours, but you have been forced to. Wouldn't it be nice to be off and home and extra week per month? How can you defend a system which is built upon cheap labor that has no backbone to stand up and say no to predatory management tactics that have you leaving family and friends 20% more than you used to be while making a salary equivalent to a fast food employee? I don't understand if I am not making myself clear, or you are just not reading what I am saying, but for once and for all you are not paid enough for the educational requirements, duties, responsibilities, and time away from home that are being forced upon you. If you realize and agree with that then I cannot understand how you could possible submit an opposing argument to contradict these facts!
4. It is a result of the current state of our entry level positions to our career which is hindering pilot hiring and therefore creating a shortage of qualified applicants.
This is essentially the entire point of my thread. I used my current airline's contract to reinforce my arguments, but the same can be made for nearly any airline at the "regional" level. Although we fly thousands of passengers coast to coast daily, we've been forced to believe that we deserve less and should be happy with the opportunity to fly the flights we have. We have been led by various means to approve contracts that are financially equivalent to those which fast food employees are making attempts to achieve. If that realization does not upset you then I would like to apologize on your behalf to your high school economics teacher who has so cleared fail to give you a basic understanding of your labor's value.
12-10-2013, 01:00 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 145
He might not get it because he seems to have moved onto Delta and has a prosperous career to look forward to. If you were to talk to one of the countless regional pilots who have not gotten onto a legacy despite much effort, they probably would have a different opinion. It's only worth the many years/decades of sacrifice and suffering if you actually get into one of those positions.
12-10-2013, 04:01 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by MachJ
He might not get it because he seems to have moved onto Delta and has a prosperous career to look forward to. If you were to talk to one of the countless regional pilots who have not gotten onto a legacy despite much effort, they probably would have a different opinion. It's only worth the many years/decades of sacrifice and suffering if you actually get into one of those positions.
12-10-2013, 04:34 PM
#29
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Delta1067
I get it. It's just such a stupid argument & comparison when pilots claim "I can make more at Home Depot, McDonalds, BK blah blah blah" It isn't true. If there is more to be made working min wage jobs, then why are they selling themselves short by flying airplanes?
Personally, other jobs other than flying were never an option I truly wanted to do. Sure, I have had other jobs to support myself, but they weren't "careers", just jobs.
12-10-2013, 04:54 PM
#30
Living the Dream
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Another RJ CA
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by HermannGraf
"So go work for Burger King. Have fun"
poor guy ..........put so much work into explaining and you did not understand any of it.......
amazing answer....amazing
poor guy ..........put so much work into explaining and you did not understand any of it.......
amazing answer....amazing
