Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
10-31-2015 | 12:37 PM
#1141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 709
Likes: 0
From: 320
And if I remember the LOA correctly, you have to take first upgrade you can hold in order to keep the captain pay status.
10-31-2015 | 04:34 PM
#1143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,485
Likes: 495
It's the principle of the matter. I can only assume you two were not 9E FOs in 2007. At the time we were the lowest paid RJ drivers for 1st and 2nd year, even below Mesa. 1st year was 20.73/hr and 2nd year was 24.39/hr. 9E management came up with a LOA that raised 1st and 2nd year FO pay. The union decided to play hardball and hold the FOs hostage for leverage. The union never used the word "jealous" to justify screwing us out of a payraise, they said it was leverage. Leverage, of course, that would never come, and can never come in the FFD cutthroat business.
Then TA 1 came and management again just gave 10 million as the signing bonus for time since amendable date, and the union again tried to screw the FOs by making a formula based on W2 wages. So to recap, screw FOs out of 1st and 2nd year payraises, and then tied a bonus distribution method to W2 wages which were of course oppressed because they turned down the pay raise.
So yeah, I get the heartache some have with LOA 50. You USED to be a Captain. Now that you are downgraded, you should get FO pay like every other FO out there. Not create a B-scale FO in which only a select few get a higher pay for doing the same FO job. Of course, management just did this because they knew if downgraded CAs had to go back to FO pay, almost all would leave right away to another regional (esp a Direct Entry Captain position). Management was smart and they offered a LOA to help in retaining pilots. The union of course took it and created a B scale for FOs.
Now with that history explained, hopefully you understand the grudges of 7-9 year legacy 9E FOs.
10-31-2015 | 07:52 PM
#1144
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 917
Likes: 27
Jealousy?!
It's the principle of the matter. I can only assume you two were not 9E FOs in 2007. At the time we were the lowest paid RJ drivers for 1st and 2nd year, even below Mesa. 1st year was 20.73/hr and 2nd year was 24.39/hr. 9E management came up with a LOA that raised 1st and 2nd year FO pay. The union decided to play hardball and hold the FOs hostage for leverage. The union never used the word "jealous" to justify screwing us out of a payraise, they said it was leverage. Leverage, of course, that would never come, and can never come in the FFD cutthroat business.
Then TA 1 came and management again just gave 10 million as the signing bonus for time since amendable date, and the union again tried to screw the FOs by making a formula based on W2 wages. So to recap, screw FOs out of 1st and 2nd year payraises, and then tied a bonus distribution method to W2 wages which were of course oppressed because they turned down the pay raise.
So yeah, I get the heartache some have with LOA 50. You USED to be a Captain. Now that you are downgraded, you should get FO pay like every other FO out there. Not create a B-scale FO in which only a select few get a higher pay for doing the same FO job. Of course, management just did this because they knew if downgraded CAs had to go back to FO pay, almost all would leave right away to another regional (esp a Direct Entry Captain position). Management was smart and they offered a LOA to help in retaining pilots. The union of course took it and created a B scale for FOs.
Now with that history explained, hopefully you understand the grudges of 7-9 year legacy 9E FOs.
It's the principle of the matter. I can only assume you two were not 9E FOs in 2007. At the time we were the lowest paid RJ drivers for 1st and 2nd year, even below Mesa. 1st year was 20.73/hr and 2nd year was 24.39/hr. 9E management came up with a LOA that raised 1st and 2nd year FO pay. The union decided to play hardball and hold the FOs hostage for leverage. The union never used the word "jealous" to justify screwing us out of a payraise, they said it was leverage. Leverage, of course, that would never come, and can never come in the FFD cutthroat business.
Then TA 1 came and management again just gave 10 million as the signing bonus for time since amendable date, and the union again tried to screw the FOs by making a formula based on W2 wages. So to recap, screw FOs out of 1st and 2nd year payraises, and then tied a bonus distribution method to W2 wages which were of course oppressed because they turned down the pay raise.
So yeah, I get the heartache some have with LOA 50. You USED to be a Captain. Now that you are downgraded, you should get FO pay like every other FO out there. Not create a B-scale FO in which only a select few get a higher pay for doing the same FO job. Of course, management just did this because they knew if downgraded CAs had to go back to FO pay, almost all would leave right away to another regional (esp a Direct Entry Captain position). Management was smart and they offered a LOA to help in retaining pilots. The union of course took it and created a B scale for FOs.
Now with that history explained, hopefully you understand the grudges of 7-9 year legacy 9E FOs.
11-01-2015 | 02:59 AM
#1145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Regardless of the original airline, not cutting the pay of those who are in upgrade training currently on LOA50 is not a kick in the ass to anyone. Nothing is being taken away from the pilot group, no one is being screwed. One person or group getting a benefit does not equal the rest having something taken away.
Life isn't fair, most people were taught by their parents at a young age that not everyone gets a lollipop. Same principle.
Life isn't fair, most people were taught by their parents at a young age that not everyone gets a lollipop. Same principle.
11-01-2015 | 05:38 AM
#1148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Regardless of the original airline, not cutting the pay of those who are in upgrade training currently on LOA50 is not a kick in the ass to anyone. Nothing is being taken away from the pilot group, no one is being screwed. One person or group getting a benefit does not equal the rest having something taken away.
Life isn't fair, most people were taught by their parents at a young age that not everyone gets a lollipop. Same principle.
Life isn't fair, most people were taught by their parents at a young age that not everyone gets a lollipop. Same principle.
11-01-2015 | 07:05 AM
#1150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Regardless of the original airline, not cutting the pay of those who are in upgrade training currently on LOA50 is not a kick in the ass to anyone. Nothing is being taken away from the pilot group, no one is being screwed. One person or group getting a benefit does not equal the rest having something taken away.
Life isn't fair, most people pre-Millennial's were taught by their parents at a young age that not everyone gets a lollipop. Same principle.
Life isn't fair, most people pre-Millennial's were taught by their parents at a young age that not everyone gets a lollipop. Same principle.
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