Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
06-15-2016, 04:31 PM
#5201
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
The only way anyone upgrades is if captains leave or new planes are added. Short term 9E has added a few 200s and some captains have left. But in the very near future all SSP captains and fos remaining will have failed the delta ssp interview and not be leaving anytime soon. When the C Series orders start delivery in 2017 Delta will be removing regional flying and placing it on the mainline certificate. What future will a new hire have with a seniority list full of captains who couldn't pass the delta interview and a shrinking fleet of planes being sent to mainline? Retention bonuses expire right after the C Series deliveries start coming. The end of the regional model is here. How can you lifers justify pulling the wool over the eyes of new hires to screw them and prolong your own regional career long enough to retire while setting them up for failure with false hopes of high pay and quick upgrades and delta jobs when the truth is that none of that is likely to happen when facing the facts?!
ATTENTION ALL NEW HIRES!! According to this logic bypass ALL regionals, continue flight instructing and building that 172 time. Turbine experience is no longer needed according to this logic! We need to make sure that "wool" isn't pulled over your eyes! Roger that? Carry on!
06-15-2016, 04:35 PM
#5202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
They may move on, but not to Delta. And how will a new hire be competitive with a few hundred hours of right seat rj time when there are hundreds of pilots with military time, thousands of tpic hours, check airman, internal recs, etc...
My point is new hires need to be realistic. Endeavor is not the fast track to the majors that many on here would like you to believe it is. The "industry leading" pay is a short term bonus to prolong the inevitable. 9E was a sinking ship in 2014 and the retention bonus was introduced quickly to prevent excessive cancellations for delta's summer schedule. It will be just as quickly removed in 2018 (maybe earlier) as Delta takes the regional flying back in-house on the mainline certificate with C Series deliveries in 2017. It is the end of days for the regionals. The only ones who try to tell you things are perfect, and its all too good to be true, are the regional lifers on this forum who are hoping to run out the clock until they can retire in a few years. New hires at endeavor can expect many years as an fo at the bottom of the industry pay scale and a 50-50 shot at making it to delta with the "guaranteed" interview after 2 years as a captain.
My point is new hires need to be realistic. Endeavor is not the fast track to the majors that many on here would like you to believe it is. The "industry leading" pay is a short term bonus to prolong the inevitable. 9E was a sinking ship in 2014 and the retention bonus was introduced quickly to prevent excessive cancellations for delta's summer schedule. It will be just as quickly removed in 2018 (maybe earlier) as Delta takes the regional flying back in-house on the mainline certificate with C Series deliveries in 2017. It is the end of days for the regionals. The only ones who try to tell you things are perfect, and its all too good to be true, are the regional lifers on this forum who are hoping to run out the clock until they can retire in a few years. New hires at endeavor can expect many years as an fo at the bottom of the industry pay scale and a 50-50 shot at making it to delta with the "guaranteed" interview after 2 years as a captain.
If it's the end of the regionals, then how are "lifers" going to run out the clock, and how are FOs going to stay at the bottom of the barrel. You are right, Delta is a difficult place to be hired, but they all are. Majors taking more flying in house is a GOOD thing. That coupled with mandatory retirements means it can only get easier to be hired, never mind how much left seat time you have. This is all assuming that every captain on the seniority list fails the SSP and stays a captain for the rest of their career at 9E, which is one of the more idiotic things I've heard. You also overestimate how many qualified military pilots there really are. Believe it or not, the military is facing a shortage as well...
06-15-2016, 04:37 PM
#5203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,242
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
They may move on, but not to Delta. And how will a new hire be competitive with a few hundred hours of right seat rj time when there are hundreds of pilots with military time, thousands of tpic hours, check airman, internal recs, etc...
My point is new hires need to be realistic. Endeavor is not the fast track to the majors that many on here would like you to believe it is. The "industry leading" pay is a short term bonus to prolong the inevitable. 9E was a sinking ship in 2014 and the retention bonus was introduced quickly to prevent excessive cancellations for delta's summer schedule. It will be just as quickly removed in 2018 (maybe earlier) as Delta takes the regional flying back in-house on the mainline certificate with C Series deliveries in 2017. It is the end of days for the regionals. The only ones who try to tell you things are perfect, and its all too good to be true, are the regional lifers on this forum who are hoping to run out the clock until they can retire in a few years. New hires at endeavor can expect many years as an fo at the bottom of the industry pay scale and a 50-50 shot at making it to delta with the "guaranteed" interview after 2 years as a captain.
My point is new hires need to be realistic. Endeavor is not the fast track to the majors that many on here would like you to believe it is. The "industry leading" pay is a short term bonus to prolong the inevitable. 9E was a sinking ship in 2014 and the retention bonus was introduced quickly to prevent excessive cancellations for delta's summer schedule. It will be just as quickly removed in 2018 (maybe earlier) as Delta takes the regional flying back in-house on the mainline certificate with C Series deliveries in 2017. It is the end of days for the regionals. The only ones who try to tell you things are perfect, and its all too good to be true, are the regional lifers on this forum who are hoping to run out the clock until they can retire in a few years. New hires at endeavor can expect many years as an fo at the bottom of the industry pay scale and a 50-50 shot at making it to delta with the "guaranteed" interview after 2 years as a captain.
The only thing Endeavor has is 300 pilots moving to Delta in the next 2 years - more than any regional in the country, 1 year upgrades, a growing fleet and the highest pay in the industry. What more do you want? No other regional has that kind of movement to 1 major airline. No other regional has pay that comes close. Skywest offers more stability but they also offer no contract, take a job tomorrow and next week they could decide at the snap of their fingers to slash your pay by however much they want.
If you really want to be realistic and ask all these what if questions then you'll never settle on a company.
06-15-2016, 04:38 PM
#5204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: CA
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by CFin
That's good, things were getting too positive around here. I'm glad another "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!" Troll has stopped by.
Right..... They don't even work here so I'm not sure how they can be so credible to know what the h*ll is going on. But at the end of the day I can support my family here on FO pay and already can hold captain. (Just don't have the time)
06-15-2016, 04:40 PM
#5205
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Another RJ CA
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by gojo
Please do tell which regional is a safe bet in today's climate?
I rarely post on other airline's topics, and do not wish to spread ill will. However I felt compelled after one of your recruiters posted lies on my current employer's thread and bashed them. As you will notice, I am not advocating for anyone to go to any particular regional. Rather I have only asked questions and expressed my opinion on the future state of the airlines, my objective being to inform potential pilots rather than allow them to believe the lies I have witnesses your recruiters posting across the forums.
06-15-2016, 04:44 PM
#5206
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Another RJ CA
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by FreightWasScary
Right..... They don't even work here so I'm not sure how they can be so credible to know what the h*ll is going on. But at the end of the day I can support my family here on FO pay and already can hold captain. (Just don't have the time)
06-15-2016, 04:55 PM
#5207
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Another RJ CA
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Birdman2
ATTENTION ALL NEW HIRES!! According to this logic bypass ALL regionals, continue flight instructing and building that 172 time. Turbine experience is no longer needed according to this logic! We need to make sure that "wool" isn't pulled over your eyes! Roger that? Carry on!
If any instructors would like my opinion on where to go, too bad I am not offering any. I do not advocate for any regional in particular.
However, I do advocate for truth and I feel empathetic for those in the instructing world as I was for years. It is difficult to sort through all the "facts" posted on this forum by biased parties. My intention is only to shed some light on their lies and get some answers to questions that are very important to new hires even though they may not understand the industry enough to ask. Questions which still have been avoided by the lifers on this forum wishing to pull the wool over the eyes of new hires. Lifers and recruiters, please address the following for potential new hires,
How many captains and fos remain on the seniority list who have failed the SSP interview?
What will the pay scale be for FO's after the bonuses expire?
These are important to address because if delta has already said no twice to the captains and fo's who were eligible for the pre bankruptcy SSP interview, where would a new hire expect them to go? In my opinion, the majority of those captains will remain at endeavor until they retire. In that case, how will any new hires upgrade?
How many years will it be for someone hired tomorrow to be eligible to spend two years as a 9E captain before having a 50/50 shot at a Delta job?
06-15-2016, 04:55 PM
#5208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
You are certainly one of the few lucky ones who got in early and at the right time. Those who start tomorrow will not have your fortune. I understand your selfish motivation to continue perpetuating the lies of your recruiters, for if no one else starts at the bottom you will not continue upward on the list. I just do not agree with your tactics to continue to promote false facts to entice new applicants.
So you're saying you don't even work at endeavor but you're now an expert on Delta's wholly owned.....oookkkk....I still don't understand how the end of the regional model means a new hire today will be jobless in a year. You also neglect the fact that regionals are still cheaper than mainline flying right now. Labor is still cheaper, and fuel is much cheaper.
06-15-2016, 05:00 PM
#5210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by ProverseYaw
Did not say that. However, to quote your elegant style ATTENTION ALL NEW HIRES!! BE INFORMED THAT THE "FACTS" POSTED HERE ARE NOT FULL TRUTHS. that capslock yelling is exhausting.
If any instructors would like my opinion on where to go, too bad I am not offering any. I do not advocate for any regional in particular.
However, I do advocate for truth and I feel empathetic for those in the instructing world as I was for years. It is difficult to sort through all the "facts" posted on this forum by biased parties. My intention is only to shed some light on their lies and get some answers to questions that are very important to new hires even though they may not understand the industry enough to ask. Questions which still have been avoided by the lifers on this forum wishing to pull the wool over the eyes of new hires. Lifers and recruiters, please address the following for potential new hires,
How many captains and fos remain on the seniority list who have failed the SSP interview?
What will the pay scale be for FO's after the bonuses expire?
These are important to address because if delta has already said no twice to the captains and fo's who were eligible for the pre bankruptcy SSP interview, where would a new hire expect them to go? In my opinion, the majority of those captains will remain at endeavor until they retire. In that case, how will any new hires upgrade?
How many years will it be for someone hired tomorrow to be eligible to spend two years as a 9E captain before having a 50/50 shot at a Delta job?
If any instructors would like my opinion on where to go, too bad I am not offering any. I do not advocate for any regional in particular.
However, I do advocate for truth and I feel empathetic for those in the instructing world as I was for years. It is difficult to sort through all the "facts" posted on this forum by biased parties. My intention is only to shed some light on their lies and get some answers to questions that are very important to new hires even though they may not understand the industry enough to ask. Questions which still have been avoided by the lifers on this forum wishing to pull the wool over the eyes of new hires. Lifers and recruiters, please address the following for potential new hires,
How many captains and fos remain on the seniority list who have failed the SSP interview?
What will the pay scale be for FO's after the bonuses expire?
These are important to address because if delta has already said no twice to the captains and fo's who were eligible for the pre bankruptcy SSP interview, where would a new hire expect them to go? In my opinion, the majority of those captains will remain at endeavor until they retire. In that case, how will any new hires upgrade?
How many years will it be for someone hired tomorrow to be eligible to spend two years as a 9E captain before having a 50/50 shot at a Delta job?
If you worked at Endeavor you could answer your own questions and post numbers. Don't try to act like an expert by saying buzz words like pre-bankruptcy and SSP.
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