Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
06-15-2016 | 08:09 PM
#5241
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: CA
Every regional is an outsourced cut rate bargain from mainline flying, and if daddy D decides that someone can do it for less or more reliably then your airline dujour is out of luck. My best advice is go somewhere that you wouldn't mind spending the next decade at, and work like hell to get on to somewhere better.
But, DL loves us currently. In 2017 or 2021 maybe not, but right now they do.
And work like...? Just work PERIOD and in a few years you will get hired somewhere. Only work as hard as is needed to provide the desired amount of $$.
06-15-2016 | 08:11 PM
#5242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Ahh crap... I made a mistake... Instead of spending my time at an airline paying me 70k first year with a good contract, I should have bailed to PSA for $23 an hour and the second worst contract in the regionals, clearly a place you feel deserving of spending a decade at.
Do you think of what a mistake you made jumping ship as you try to sleep at night? You'd be a captain making 100+k and would have had a shot at Delta already....
Thanks for shining the light on my folly...
Do you think of what a mistake you made jumping ship as you try to sleep at night? You'd be a captain making 100+k and would have had a shot at Delta already....
Thanks for shining the light on my folly...
06-15-2016 | 08:13 PM
#5243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Again to be clear for the many of you who did not read, I do not wish for the downfall of 9E or any regional, but I do believe the regional model is failing. I just wanted to advocate for the truth so that potential new hires can be well informed. I do not advicate for any particular regional, and I believe razor's post has a lot of great points. The regional industry is on the way out. Legacy airlines are profitable enough to start concerning themselves with performance and reliability. United's 73-700 order and Delta's CS-100&300 order are proof of stradegy. Reduced frequency, increased capacity. Older md-80 airframes phased out, new thin med haul SEA routes, and reduced dci flights are the future.
But that doesn't mean a job at 9E equals a job at Delta. And my point is many on this forum will try to make you believe that you will be paid $50k every year as a 9E fo, upgrade fast, and be at Delta with a handshake deal.
Truth is, pay at regionals is in a temporary bonus bubble, with all regionals needing more FOs than apply. When mainline reduces regional flying, those bonuses will be gone. Wholly owned ALPA carriers at Delta and American are trying to make those temporary bonuses permanent with contractual language, but so far 9E, EVY, PDT & PSA have been unsuccessful. Independent regionals have raised contractual payrates, but how high can they increase pay while remaining competitive on cost of WO and profitable?
The AAG WO have the only true flow agreement where an interview at the regional equals a job for life at the legacy carrier American. But the time for a new hire to flow is ridiculously long and in almost all cases you'll be more than competitive to go to another legacy carrier earlier if you want. 9Es new hire interview agreement at Delta is equally as worthless because by the time you upgrade at 9E and spend 2 years on reserve as a captain you could have gone anywhere and been just as competitve for an interview. 9E delta interview success rate is on par with that of all off the street hires. Plus with all the 9E captains not leaving at the top seniority you will only see turn over of junior captains so enjoy the terrible schedules and try not to get a letter on file.
Is there a "safe" regional to goto today? Of course not. There has never been such a thing as a "safe" regional. Every regional is an outsourced cut rate bargain from mainline flying, and if daddy D decides that someone can do it for less or more reliably then your airline dujour is out of luck. My best advice is go somewhere that you wouldn't mind spending the next decade at, and work like hell to get on to somewhere better.
But that doesn't mean a job at 9E equals a job at Delta. And my point is many on this forum will try to make you believe that you will be paid $50k every year as a 9E fo, upgrade fast, and be at Delta with a handshake deal.
Truth is, pay at regionals is in a temporary bonus bubble, with all regionals needing more FOs than apply. When mainline reduces regional flying, those bonuses will be gone. Wholly owned ALPA carriers at Delta and American are trying to make those temporary bonuses permanent with contractual language, but so far 9E, EVY, PDT & PSA have been unsuccessful. Independent regionals have raised contractual payrates, but how high can they increase pay while remaining competitive on cost of WO and profitable?
The AAG WO have the only true flow agreement where an interview at the regional equals a job for life at the legacy carrier American. But the time for a new hire to flow is ridiculously long and in almost all cases you'll be more than competitive to go to another legacy carrier earlier if you want. 9Es new hire interview agreement at Delta is equally as worthless because by the time you upgrade at 9E and spend 2 years on reserve as a captain you could have gone anywhere and been just as competitve for an interview. 9E delta interview success rate is on par with that of all off the street hires. Plus with all the 9E captains not leaving at the top seniority you will only see turn over of junior captains so enjoy the terrible schedules and try not to get a letter on file.
Is there a "safe" regional to goto today? Of course not. There has never been such a thing as a "safe" regional. Every regional is an outsourced cut rate bargain from mainline flying, and if daddy D decides that someone can do it for less or more reliably then your airline dujour is out of luck. My best advice is go somewhere that you wouldn't mind spending the next decade at, and work like hell to get on to somewhere better.
And a "safe" regional you say? Heck there isn't even such a thing as a "safe" major, let alone a safe regional, 135, or 91 job. And military flying... while it may offer better job security, is far from safe in a different sense of the word. The only "safe" job (as in some concept of job security) is working for the government. Life is a risk. The sooner you figure that out, the sooner you can get on with living.
The regional model may indeed be failing, but right now it's the best path to the majors for both pure civilian pilots and mil guys who have been out of the airplane for several years.
06-16-2016 | 03:00 PM
#5244
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 700
Likes: 12
From: Airplane
Anyone considering Endeavor...don't let the naysayers deter you! The one year upgrades are real. I'm on track for about $68k on year two FO pay picking up one day or two day trips per month(waiting for that 200 percent!). Everyone is great to work with. When the ship sinks, this is the place I would rather be. Delta is a great company and has done nothing but good, positive things for us.
06-16-2016 | 03:18 PM
#5245
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 0
Anyone considering Endeavor...don't let the naysayers deter you! The one year upgrades are real. I'm on track for about $68k on year two FO pay picking up one day or two day trips per month(waiting for that 200 percent!). Everyone is great to work with. When the ship sinks, this is the place I would rather be. Delta is a great company and has done nothing but good, positive things for us.
06-17-2016 | 03:44 AM
#5247
Living the Dream
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Another RJ CA
9E has a lot of good things going for it now, and if I were a new atp it would be high on my list along with skywest and perhaps a few others depending on where I want to live. But as a new atp, I would also like to be correctly informed, and this site can be a great source for that if the answers are unbiased truths.
06-17-2016 | 03:54 AM
#5248
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Because we are trying to get our 1000 sic, enjoy making more money, and still actually enjoy the job. I love picking up day turns while my wife is at work. Easy way to make 6 hours of pay and I'm still home when she gets home from work!
06-17-2016 | 05:24 AM
#5249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: B767 FO
I'm actually doing great, enjoying the highest pay and best quality of life I've ever had so far. But only because I got lucky by making the move when I did. I certainly would not recommend anyone doing what I did now.
9E has a lot of good things going for it now, and if I were a new atp it would be high on my list along with skywest and perhaps a few others depending on where I want to live. But as a new atp, I would also like to be correctly informed, and this site can be a great source for that if the answers are unbiased truths.
9E has a lot of good things going for it now, and if I were a new atp it would be high on my list along with skywest and perhaps a few others depending on where I want to live. But as a new atp, I would also like to be correctly informed, and this site can be a great source for that if the answers are unbiased truths.
I've watched your blustering with great amusement! When this all started you asked a question about the bonus and insinuated it would be gone in a year. I answered your question truthfully. Then you followed it up with a question regarding upgrades. Honestly, I ignored you, because I figured if you couldn't figure out the difference between "through" and "until", you didn't need to be concerned with upgrading to captain!
Now I see, you were just trying to be a baiting arse!
What lies? I have not seen anywhere where someone says the bonus is permanent. I have not seen anywhere someone guarantee a 1 yr upgrade.
Stating that endeavor has one of the highest pays in the industry for a first year FO and highest for the next 2 is not a lie! Whether you don't like the propaganda or not doesn't make it a lie!
Stating that we have upgrades at a little over a year is not a lie. It is fact. I haven't seen anyone guarantee or say what upgrades will be in the future, but stating what they are right now is not a lie!
Stating that we have 200 FOs off reserve by time they finish buildup is not a lie! No one is guaranteeing the future, but they are telling the truth.
I guess I had you pegged right the first time....you're just pretty dense!
Perhaps look up the definition of a lie in the dictionary before getting on your high horse, Mr self anointed truth and salvation for future FOs
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-17-2016 | 08:31 AM
#5250
Living the Dream
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: Another RJ CA
I realized shortly after I posted my question that it was a dumb question and deleted my post. Of course everyone has different motivations and goals in this job due to their lifestlye, and if you're happy then thats all that matters.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
