You are correct, that is what the contract says, beyond the Protected Pilots.

I am speculating, but once hiring kicks into high gear, market forces will cause AA to renegotiate the flow number back up to the rate at the Protected Pilots, 25 per month.

Anticipated sustained hiring in a few years for the 6 majors (per Boeing press release which matches up with current hiring rates at the majors increased for the increased retirements) will be about 6,000 a year.

The military retirements are about 1,000 a year, so drop that number to 5,000. Recognize some get hired from other sources. Knock another 1,000 off this, make it 4,000. The regionals are about 20,000.

So again, with a bit of math, the hiring rate from the regionals will be about 20,000 / 4,000 per year = 5 years. I have a hard time believing AA will leave flows at 12 years. The market forces will push them to about match this. Otherwise, W.O. recruiting will go to pot.

Again, you may have a different opinion.

 

I love America. Where else can someone bash a job that lets you be at home 15 days a month and pays $200k after a couple of years?

 

It's obvious that you haven't been around that long. AAG will never, and I do mean never, go above and beyond on anything that they don't have to if it costs them money or isn't in their interest. They've violated Envoy's contract year after year. Take for example the reserve turn back +1 and then you are done. Somehow or another within a year of signing that deal, reserves would come out on day 1 and be turned back through day 6, never seeing their own bed for 5 straight nights. Clear violation that Envoy obviously had no intention of ever living up to.

I know it's hard to let go of the con job that the recruiters put on you and then the kool aid they pump in you during indoc and initial, but it's reality. You can see that AA has flat out stopped the flow for most of the last half of this year already. 88 new hires scheduled for November and only 25 flows.

 

why do you care so much? Weren't you fired from Envoy? Guess that'd explain your hard feelings

 

IMO that should have never been grieved. The company's interpretation is fair. Turn a reserve pilot back a second time or JM a pilot into a day off. I don't see why this is a big deal. Seems pretty straight forward.

Now if you want to talk about inadequate staffing levels then you have something.

Yep they stopped flow and new hires. They are sticking it to EVERYONE. All airlines that had pilots selected to go to AA during most of the last half of this year got screwed by AA. I hate it when AA sticks it to everyone like that.

 

It’s “contractual”. That’s why it was grieved and should have been won. If it was cheaper to hire more people and properly staff then we would have had the rtp program years ago. It was cheaper to hose the contract so that’s what they did. Did you notice that in the loa that was shut down that whole second turn back thing was taken out? How much did it cost to put in in there and how many guys saw that as a huge “get” worth voting yes for?

 

You do not have to wait for the flow.

Envoy is on par with the industry (and even leading in some areas) for reserve time, upgrade time, pay, bonuses, commuter policy, contract... You will qualify for a legacy/major/lcc just as quickly with Envoy as anywhere else. Difference being, even if you end up sucking at the application game (oh the stories I have heard about application windows and no callbacks etc.) you still have a guaranteed job at a legacy carrier.

I understand and appreciate the sentiment to warn pilots from going to Envoy with the notion that flow is going to be their golden ticket and fastest track to a major (fighting hard to hold back my tangent about airlines and schools preying on young pilots). Still, I think that message is lost and has yielded to a message of "flow is bad and is going to hurt you. RUN AWAY!" Which is not true and just as harmful to new pilots as "Flow is magic. It makes you poop rainbows and fart perfume."

$0.02

 

From an allegiant pilot no less lol

 

Sounds like a skittles ad.

 

Very well said. We have extremes on both ends it seems. Don't be an extreme... But a middle ground