Envoy Air bonus repayment
09-03-2018, 08:07 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by highfarfast
I didn't realize referencing current and real agreements was considered jaded. I don't even think I've been here long enough to be jaded.
Just a reminder, the increase from 25 to 29 was a settlement from a grievance. Not, 'hay, we need flow to matter so here's this'.
And I would welcome with open arms anything that increased the later groups from 15 since I'm not a protected pilot. But I'm not going to make any plans based on that.
Just a reminder, the increase from 25 to 29 was a settlement from a grievance. Not, 'hay, we need flow to matter so here's this'.
And I would welcome with open arms anything that increased the later groups from 15 since I'm not a protected pilot. But I'm not going to make any plans based on that.
I don’t believe they are going to cut the flow to 15 pilots a month, they are gonna need to turn the faucet up to fill those spots but your point is a good one coming from the fact that this was a result of grievance. With that being said however, nobody really knows but the majority of people believe that AA will turn up the amount of people who need to be flowed due to demand. Previous years, not so much
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09-03-2018, 08:55 PM
#42
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,238
Originally Posted by highfarfast
I didn't realize referencing current and real agreements was considered jaded. I don't even think I've been here long enough to be jaded.
Just a reminder, the increase from 25 to 29 was a settlement from a grievance. Not, 'hay, we need flow to matter so here's this'.
And I would welcome with open arms anything that increased the later groups from 15 since I'm not a protected pilot. But I'm not going to make any plans based on that.
Just a reminder, the increase from 25 to 29 was a settlement from a grievance. Not, 'hay, we need flow to matter so here's this'.
And I would welcome with open arms anything that increased the later groups from 15 since I'm not a protected pilot. But I'm not going to make any plans based on that.
09-04-2018, 06:08 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
Originally Posted by UncreativeUser
I don’t believe they are going to cut the flow to 15 pilots a month, they are gonna need to turn the faucet up to fill those spots but your point is a good one coming from the fact that this was a result of grievance. With that being said however, nobody really knows but the majority of people believe that AA will turn up the amount of people who need to be flowed due to demand. Previous years, not so much
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09-04-2018, 06:08 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,949
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
Well I get what you are saying but the facts are 824 flowed 30 and PP flowed 29. I didn't see the 29 happening at all. I don't see the next group getting a bump IF their numbers are flowing sub 6 years. The group after that has a chance to flow more but I don't see us getting anything without the other two getting something. PSAs flow is crap so why isn't their fixed?
2500 pilots / (15 flow per month x 11 months per year) = 15 years for flow, assuming no attrition.
In a few years hiring from the regionals will be 4,000 per year (conservative number). That is 20,000 pilots all regionals combined / 4,000 pilots per year hired by the majors = 5 years average at regionals to get hired by the majors.
How effective a recruiting tool is 15 years for flow (assuming no attrition) when the average for all regionals is 5 years?
Something will have to change for flow to be even slightly meaningful.
09-04-2018, 06:12 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by UncreativeUser
but the majority of people believe that AA will turn up the amount of people who need to be flowed due to demand. Previous years, not so much
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09-04-2018, 06:15 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Quick calculation. Next group after the Protected Pilots are contractually set at 15 pilots per month.
2500 pilots / (15 flow per month x 11 months per year) = 15 years for flow, assuming no attrition.
In a few years hiring from the regionals will be 4,000 per year (conservative number). That is 20,000 pilots all regionals combined / 4,000 pilots per year hired by the majors = 5 years average at regionals to get hired by the majors.
How effective a recruiting tool is 15 years for flow (assuming no attrition) when the average for all regionals is 5 years?
Something will have to change for flow to be even slightly meaningful.
2500 pilots / (15 flow per month x 11 months per year) = 15 years for flow, assuming no attrition.
In a few years hiring from the regionals will be 4,000 per year (conservative number). That is 20,000 pilots all regionals combined / 4,000 pilots per year hired by the majors = 5 years average at regionals to get hired by the majors.
How effective a recruiting tool is 15 years for flow (assuming no attrition) when the average for all regionals is 5 years?
Something will have to change for flow to be even slightly meaningful.
09-04-2018, 06:19 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Quick calculation. Next group after the Protected Pilots are contractually set at 15 pilots per month.
2500 pilots / (15 flow per month x 11 months per year) = 15 years for flow, assuming no attrition.
In a few years hiring from the regionals will be 4,000 per year (conservative number). That is 20,000 pilots all regionals combined / 4,000 pilots per year hired by the majors = 5 years average at regionals to get hired by the majors.
How effective a recruiting tool is 15 years for flow (assuming no attrition) when the average for all regionals is 5 years?
Something will have to change for flow to be even slightly meaningful.
2500 pilots / (15 flow per month x 11 months per year) = 15 years for flow, assuming no attrition.
In a few years hiring from the regionals will be 4,000 per year (conservative number). That is 20,000 pilots all regionals combined / 4,000 pilots per year hired by the majors = 5 years average at regionals to get hired by the majors.
How effective a recruiting tool is 15 years for flow (assuming no attrition) when the average for all regionals is 5 years?
Something will have to change for flow to be even slightly meaningful.
09-04-2018, 06:28 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,949
Originally Posted by CaptJackSparrow
They have over 17,000 applications on file last I checked.
Then I heard 13,000. Then I heard 5,000. Then I heard 17,000. Then I heard 3,000. Then, 25,000.
Put some reality in it. There are 20,000 pilots with the regionals. So, about 10,000 are captains. The often quoted number is 10% of the pilots, or 2,000 are lifers. That means 8,000 captains likely have applications out. While many first officers do as well, many are not yet qualified (especially hours).
So, what was reported by AA HR of 7,000 is a believable number. A number such as a big increase to 17,000 strains at my believability.
09-04-2018, 06:32 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,949
Originally Posted by havick206
It’s not 15/month for everyone.
09-04-2018, 06:50 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
Originally Posted by TransWorld
I understand the next group after the Protected Pilots is contractually 15/month. You mean that contractual number is not for everyone in that group? Or are you talking about the subsequent group?
You make it sound like it’s 15/month going forward into eternity after the protected pilots finish. That is not correct.
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