:d

 

Yea that's nowhere close to true. 90% of the pilots I talk to know of the forums and at least half of them read. Everyone except 1 or 2 is accurate.

 

I think what dera is trying to say is that no one takes any of you seriously due to the sheer amount of high-drama screeching on this forum.

If you guys were able to dial it back and provide rational, factual responses instead of just fantastical whining, calling each other ball-washers, and showing that many of you don’t have the faintest understanding of how unions work, people may actually listen to what you have to say.

I, for one, don’t have the patience to wade through it. I’ve got multiple CJOs and instead of the actual discussions I find elsewhere, the tone of this place is such a damned mess that it’s all just noise and you come across as a vocal minority of agitators in a vacuum.

Have some real conversations instead of just egging each other on. Then you may see the results you want.

 

I think the life cycle of an envoy employee goes something like this. New hire eager to fly and give the company the benefit of the doubt because hope exists. A fee years in and a few years of reserve abuse turns into a seething hatred for this company because your pay and QOL is so so far behind your peers who haven't sat reserve except for maybe a few months. A few years go and seniority builds and you are off reserve, still very far behind peers but hey at least it isn't reserve so you get some indifference. Then you flow and AA has to help rid you of the Envoy beating mentality and you slowly begin to forget, but that one time you got junior manned into a 30 hour overnight in ALO and missed your daughters birthday will never leave you.

 

It doesn't matter what we say.
Envoy is a terrible experience, it doesn't matter if you believe it or not.

 

How much of this is just the shiny being rubbed off of people as they learn what this industry is actually like? No one cares that you originally had Christmas off and had plans, or about your kid’s birthday. I have my own sob stories from my current gig. I’m already used to no one giving a crap about me. You embrace it, or it eats you alive.

The people at the “better” places are complaining about many of the same things. Inefficient schedules due to hub and spoke, antagonistic management who doesn’t want to pay pilots or improve anything, low pay. A healthier regional has reserves, but that means someone has to be on reserve. There’s a ton of complaining when there aren’t reserves, too.

The only solution seems to be to not fly for a regional. Catch-22 when you want to be an airline pilot. Then you can go on to be one of those mainline dudes who sounds like the Peanuts teacher as they ***** and moan to their jumpseater (me) for an entire transcon commute, who makes a small percentage of what they do in far worse conditions.

I’m not saying the pay inequality amongst AA WOs is excusable. It isn’t. That’s some BS, but apparently few believe it won’t be addressed in time... even here.

The cadets everyone lambasts, who took financial assistance, may not be able to afford to break their contracts. They may be trapped. I didn’t have $50 when I graduated from college, much less $5k to pay back so I could go elsewhere. And these are impressionable kids who “don’t want to get up at 4am” (actual quote from my interview group, that sweet summer child) and believe recruiters.

In fact, my interview with Envoy, where the recruiters basically sneered at us, was by far the most genuine experience I’ve had. THAT I believe...

 

It's truly a tale of 4 airlines, with 4 very different experiences.

E-145 = lengthy reserve, rather abrupt changes in line quantity between bases not following seasonal norms, stagnant fleet.

As a commuter = worst quality of life in this profession until off reserve.

As someone who lives in base = a nuisance as the days off are lower, but being senior on RAP is really quite palatable.

E175 = growing fleet, shorter if not very short reserve times as a FO.

As a commuter = tolerable as there is a predictable end to reserve. 1700 confirmation for RAP1 on ones last day off is still a drag if you live in an under served outstation and your first attempt at the commute already left at 1500.

In base = best QOL at the company, still room for improvement as our daily averages on our schedules are still quite low compared to some of our peers. For newbies this means more days need to be spent at work in order achieve minimum monthly guarantee. Pay is another problem.

So depending on which category in the above you fall into will have major impact on your experience here.

-Keep the dirty side down

 

That **** doesn't happen at every regional.

Sincerely,
A guy at a different regional

 

I have a mentor who works where you work who told me 1000% to not come there, and to choose an AA WO instead.

See how confusing this is?

 

That junior man comment was kinda made in jest, yes other regionals are crappy I'll give you that and yes reserve is a necessity at an airline. Where the differences come in is where envoy lacks behind many peers. Start with reserve. 8 hour airport standby shifts with no limit on how many a month or how many in a row envoy has to be the worst they can even call in as many as they want during "OSO" as long as there are enough recliners. The reserve system is required yes, but at any given time Envoy has well over 25% of the pilot group on reserve because heaven forbid someone has a 15 minute connection. Then There's the commuting to reserve while other regionals have set in their contract commutable first days and contractual mechanisms for early release on last day. Envoy pre assigns 4 am RAP and it's up to whatever scheduler you get on the phone on your last day if they are going to release you or not.

As far as inefficient schedules go. Envoy gets the last pick of the flight file for American in each of it's bases so that leads us to get the leftovers that skywest or republic or whoever don't want. So we end up with a lot of short turns making it hard to build the most efficient schedules. That'd be fine if we had duty rigs, but we don't so we can spend 30 hours somewhere and make only per diem for that day.

And then there's the pay which as you said is inexcusable.

There's other things but I think these highlight a lot of what people have issues with. Can someone make envoy work for them? Sure, but I bet they could make other regionals work better.