Envoy 2019
12-09-2019, 01:18 PM
#2221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by But seriously
This is a complicated way to get to just allowing us to A1D to work. We already have the ability in DECS (new since your time). If they just made it legal to A1D yourself to your base on DAY 1, it would have the same effect and be WAY less complicated.
I don’t think anyone actually believes the company would agree to this. Not that it’s a bad idea.
I don’t think anyone actually believes the company would agree to this. Not that it’s a bad idea.
Republic has a training backup of several months to get into class. With the newer raises, Envoy pays about the same, plus has a guaranteed job at AA if you stick it out. Republic has a longer upgrade too.... yet their classes are full, and Envoys last class had 20ish in it.
What’s different?
Better work rules, and
13 bases vs 4 with a similar sized pilot group, meaning over 300% better chance of being near a base to drive instead of commute.
They don’t like to open bases because of ground staff, and open/close costs. Give them a way to open & close mini-bases without the costs of displacement bids and you’d probably get much wider choice of places to fly from as a home base.
I am home based with positive space tickets to/from my trips. Even with real tickets, you’re still a commuter. You can’t just run in and pick up a day trip and be home for dinner with the family.
A1d type stuff will come as the shortage worsens. The better solution is more bases.
12-09-2019, 01:23 PM
#2222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by Tyrion
The mini-base idea is pretty dumb in my not so humble opinion. It is a lot of changes for the benefit of very few people. The companies that do it are doing it for the company's benefit. Republic and PSA have a bit of an advantage in that they can lock down a majority of the flying into those bases. It saves the company hotel costs by calling those places bases. Sure, they probably have a handful of lifers filling those seats in PIT, DAY, IND, but pilots are just as likely to avoid Republic if it means 2 leg commuting as they are likely to find somebody living in those bases.
The other issue is that our pilot group is pretty fluid, and the largest demographic are pilots living in Texas joining The Envoy to eventually be AA DFW based. Outstation pilots are more likely to be trying to get out of The Envoy by any means available, and more likely to be high turnover as they are not tied to the DFW dream.
Let's face it... management can't even make small changes to reserve scheduling to benefit commuters. About a third of the pilots at The Envoy are on reserve, so it's not a small group. Management doesn't seem to have any incentive to build efficient lines. They don't seem to care about hotel costs as there are always several crews at each hotel, when many of those midday check-ins could be turns and more days off. If anything, the company likes to have as many pilots available to reassign as possible, so we get <3 hour days and lost days, and barely more than min days off.
Our reason to exist is simply to fly the short legs and keep the flights on time. Our lack of pay protections and soft pay make us a very cheap pilot group compared to our peers.
The other issue is that our pilot group is pretty fluid, and the largest demographic are pilots living in Texas joining The Envoy to eventually be AA DFW based. Outstation pilots are more likely to be trying to get out of The Envoy by any means available, and more likely to be high turnover as they are not tied to the DFW dream.
Let's face it... management can't even make small changes to reserve scheduling to benefit commuters. About a third of the pilots at The Envoy are on reserve, so it's not a small group. Management doesn't seem to have any incentive to build efficient lines. They don't seem to care about hotel costs as there are always several crews at each hotel, when many of those midday check-ins could be turns and more days off. If anything, the company likes to have as many pilots available to reassign as possible, so we get <3 hour days and lost days, and barely more than min days off.
Our reason to exist is simply to fly the short legs and keep the flights on time. Our lack of pay protections and soft pay make us a very cheap pilot group compared to our peers.
Scheduling has always been the largest failure at Eaglevoy. Is G.I.Jane still running it? By the sounds of your description of productivity, I’m guessing yes.
12-09-2019, 02:48 PM
#2223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Position: Flying with my right hand again
Posts: 199
Envoy can't even manage enough flying out of Miami (an AA hub) to make that work for the people recruited out of Florida. What makes you think that they can put together enough lines to make someplace like XNA, TUL, or LIT a viable mini-base option?
The big draw to Republic isn't the 13 bases. Their recruiters lie to new hires, too. They can credibly boast about better work rules and pay and an all 175 fleet. They tell naive CFIs that Republic flies for all three majors, so they have a foot in the door. They tell them fast upgrades are coming again when they get another 100 175s on property (CFIs don't know about scope clause limitations).
Yes, if a dude lives in Indy, he'll probably stick it out at flight school for a few more months waiting for a class date. But that isn't the decision process most people make.
A dude living in Austin has no base. Unfamiliar with the reality of commuting, he figures his best commutes are Houston and DFW. So that generally means he'll start with Republic, Skywest, and The Envoy. (I give him credit to know to avoid Mesa). He applies to all 3, gets offers from all 3, and now it's time to choose. The Republic recruiters tell him that he'll have a class in about 3 month and can hold Houston right away. That 3 months turns to 9 if he lets them string him along that much. Or he might believe the Envoy recruiter saying he will flow in 5 years.
Or he might drink the blue Koolaid and take the Skywest FO oath... who knows?
He might even keep that Republic offer in his back pocket, get a free type rating and collect a (small) paycheck from The Envoy for a few months while chilling in an LGA hotel on reserve. I met a few dudes who have done that.
Bottom line, mini-bases aren't going to do Jack Shiznit to improve QOL at The Envoy.
The big draw to Republic isn't the 13 bases. Their recruiters lie to new hires, too. They can credibly boast about better work rules and pay and an all 175 fleet. They tell naive CFIs that Republic flies for all three majors, so they have a foot in the door. They tell them fast upgrades are coming again when they get another 100 175s on property (CFIs don't know about scope clause limitations).
Yes, if a dude lives in Indy, he'll probably stick it out at flight school for a few more months waiting for a class date. But that isn't the decision process most people make.
A dude living in Austin has no base. Unfamiliar with the reality of commuting, he figures his best commutes are Houston and DFW. So that generally means he'll start with Republic, Skywest, and The Envoy. (I give him credit to know to avoid Mesa). He applies to all 3, gets offers from all 3, and now it's time to choose. The Republic recruiters tell him that he'll have a class in about 3 month and can hold Houston right away. That 3 months turns to 9 if he lets them string him along that much. Or he might believe the Envoy recruiter saying he will flow in 5 years.
Or he might drink the blue Koolaid and take the Skywest FO oath... who knows?
He might even keep that Republic offer in his back pocket, get a free type rating and collect a (small) paycheck from The Envoy for a few months while chilling in an LGA hotel on reserve. I met a few dudes who have done that.
Bottom line, mini-bases aren't going to do Jack Shiznit to improve QOL at The Envoy.
12-09-2019, 08:22 PM
#2224
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,507
Originally Posted by Cujo665
Unless things have drastically changed, the largest chunk of pilots are commuters.
Scheduling has always been the largest failure at Eaglevoy. Is G.I.Jane still running it? By the sounds of your description of productivity, I’m guessing yes.
Scheduling has always been the largest failure at Eaglevoy. Is G.I.Jane still running it? By the sounds of your description of productivity, I’m guessing yes.
12-10-2019, 03:10 PM
#2227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by dvtpilot
What’s the readers digest version behind this person running scheduling? I don’t know anything about it, but I’m only a few years in.
Intimidate, threaten and fire.
G.i.Jane. Her way or the highway.
12-10-2019, 03:45 PM
#2228
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,507
Originally Posted by Cujo665
Intimidate, threaten and fire.
12-10-2019, 03:54 PM
#2229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 147
The only people that like outstation bases are the few that live there. Someone said PSA benefits from it however they do not. Dayton is now the most senior base in the company with nothing but Comair lifers since CVG is closing in March. PSA = Positive Space Airlines because of these outstation bases. Trips that start with a DH and end with a DH are completely pointless. All that does is take away lines from the hubs that most people here want to be based at. The company hates them. Rumor is another PSA outstation is closing (not ORF). Outstation work for Republic and Skywest because they fly for the big 3 and the WO are limited to AA flying only which limits outstation potential.
12-10-2019, 05:53 PM
#2230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by boxthrower
The only people that like outstation bases are the few that live there. Someone said PSA benefits from it however they do not. Dayton is now the most senior base in the company with nothing but Comair lifers since CVG is closing in March. PSA = Positive Space Airlines because of these outstation bases. Trips that start with a DH and end with a DH are completely pointless. All that does is take away lines from the hubs that most people here want to be based at. The company hates them. Rumor is another PSA outstation is closing (not ORF). Outstation work for Republic and Skywest because they fly for the big 3 and the WO are limited to AA flying only which limits outstation potential.
Everything that’s happened since 2012 we told them would happen. Nothing else for free.
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