You made a smart decision coodrough. Trust me. Give things a year or so and you'll see why.

He has arrived.

Its fine, every single one of his "trust me" statements has absolutely backfired. Even the most ignorant, head in the sand reader can understand that the best course of action will to do the exact opposite of anything TheKooj says.

Agreed. The aviation industry troll of the year award goes to TheKooj! Congratulations lol.

I’ve spent a little time thinking about this flow going away in bankruptcy stuff, and I just don’t know why it would. Getting rid of flow doesn’t provide any cost savings. If it’s gone, then AAG only helps the Spirits and Frontiers as all their WO regional pilots have a mass exodus. I’m pretty sure everyone at a WO walks that stay or spirit tightrope as some point. Or if not one of those carriers then just the highest paying regional. The WOs basically don’t need a recruiting department because of it. And my understanding is that the training over at AA is mostly seamless for the flows, while street hires and military tend to be the ones needing extra, so the training dept tends to like it. (Not that a flow is a better pilot, just the FOM and procedures and familiarity etc)

Not glorifying flow or saying that it’s not gonna be a decade...just speaking to the “flows gone in bankruptcy” point.

Wouldn’t mind hearing some other perspectives.

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s gone, but rather of zero usefulness as of now. Effectively it might as well be gone. In terms of it going away in the future, AA could use it to get concessions with the threat of removing it.

You are correct, however it has huge negotiating power, at least it did.

What would it matter if nobody is flowing? Spirit, Southwest, Jetblue et al will all be hiring long before AA hires another pilot. Is there really going to be anyone saying, “gee, I’ve got this Spirit offer but I think I’d rather wait around until flow starts again”?

I will never understand why people bash other pilots for wanting to go to a regional for a flow. Some want very good QOL, some want a shiny new jet, some want the best pay rates, and some want career progression. Too say “hOw iS tHaT fLoW” is quite foolish.

If it wasn't for the flow I wouldn't be at my seniority today. What other regionals let you move up the list every month like clock work?

Outside of Expressjet, all of them?

If you had the stats to get on at NK you should have gone, stayed a year or two and then gone to AA. Although, all that was pre COVID so it doesn’t really matter at this point. I’m happy at NK and even if I get furloughed, at least my name is on the list.

not now and not for at least 4 years.

uh, we just had a guy in this thread say he thought an 8 year flow was better than going to spirit or frontier at the time.

Uhhh, and rightly so. Do you think AA has any chance of ever failing? How about Spirit or Frontier? The answer is, AA is too big to fail. Frontier and Spirit may not make it out of this at all.

Times are tough at the moment but it isn't going to last. When the vaccine hits late this year and starts making its way out into the population, the sentiment is going to change virtually overnight. Do you seriously want to be playing golf with some guys and when they ask what you do, having to cough, and look away while saying you work for Spirit? Or be at a bar and talking it up with a potential date and having to tell them you work for Frontier? No, the answer is you want the prestige of working for American Airlines and you can say that loud and proud when asked.

The flow is a beautiful thing and AAG recognized that early on and thus the reason they made it a cornerstone of the company. There is no substitute for walking on to AA property directly from a pipeline academy.

Yeah, that's crazy enough. But now we're likely looking at seeing hiring start elsewhere while we are not flowing.

Uh, I’d venture to say AA is NOT too big to fail completely. It is certainly failing miserably right now.

I’d rather tell someone I work at Frontier or Spirt than Envoy, or have been furloughed by AA.

Business and international pax are NOT coming back. AAG is going to start canceling August flights here shortly because the bookings are back down. Frontier and Spirit numbers don’t seem to be as affected because they don’t rely on business and international pax like the big three.

Now, go back to what ever rock you have your KoolAid still under.

Check your schedule, it has already begun and to a degree greater than I thought it would.

The current WARN letters are only the start of this. A cancellation package was dropped this morning and I would assume that the staffing plan was based on passengers returning. If the September block hours and beyond are dropped, then the initial 210 that were expected to be furloughed might end up being a lot more.

Beat me to it...

Yep! About 40% of my schedule just canceled.

Have you spoken to the union about getting set up with the HIMS program? sounds like you’re posting drunk again.

Yep, your dates will go much better when you tell them: “This job I have bagging groceries is just temporary. I really work at American Airlines, but I’m furloughed. It’s ok though because American is awesome and when I get recalled... wait, where are you going? Come back! Did I mention it was the biggest airline?”

So in the spirit of keeping up with the theme of TheKooj saying the complete opposite of what actually happens... it’s confirmed that AA goes completely under in 2021. Assets will be bought up by Spirit and Frontier forming two new super LCCs.

Remember Boeing CEO said earlier this year that “one big airline is goin to go under just a matter of time”. It will be a blood bath, this is nothing compared to previous downturns, good luck to us all. Start looking at plan B options for another career, I hate it but, it is what it is.

40 BILLION in DEBT is not goin to go away overnight!

More furloughs are coming soon. Guaranteed.

thats nice of you. A lot of folks aren’t like that.

Best comedic post of the year. You do know who does better in economic downturns with CASM, etc. correct? LCC/ULCC business models are better built to weather these storms. Have you seen the loads at Spirit/Frontier lately?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Let me guess. You are an economist and have worked in airline management to know this information?

Right. NOT. Because it's absolutely incorrect. American has the biggest economy of scale of any of the legacy carriers and they are the best positioned to weather the crisis and come out with a large gain in market share on the other side. The proportionate savings in cost with this increased level of production solidifies that aspect.

I will say that I own a WARN letter and I am VERY bullish on American Airlines. In a worst case scenario, I wouldn't stoop to the level of working for one of those sweatshops.

How are you at saying “Would you like fries with your KoolAid”?

It isn’t just the load factors (although with cheap enough fares you could probably sell out the back of a dump truck) it’s the model.

Every pilot they have can fly every aircraft they have. A falloff in international or business flying doesn’t require you to train someone currently flying a 787 (and whose previous type was a 727) to fly a 777 before you can train the guy displaced from the 777 to fly a 767 so you can train the guy who was displaced from the 767 to fly an A320 so you can train the guy displaced from the A320 to fly a 737 before you can furlough the first year 737 FO so you can save $7k a month after paying for 4 training events and 6 months of senior pilot down time. And then you have four PO’d senior guys still making 12 year scale.

If they need to furlough, NK and F9 tell their junior FO (who is making maybe $4K a month) hasta la vista and everybody else presses on.

And no captain is gonna need a new type rating to downgrade to FO either.

So yeah, you better believe NK and F9 will be recalling furloughed people and hiring new people long before AA will.

Nope. The plethora of fleet types and the effect of the seniority system absolutely HAMMERS that argument.

Single type fleets - SWA, NK, and F9, are going to gain tremendously in domestic market share, especially now that they will be less constrained by gate ability anywhere. And with all the airline bankruptcies worldwide, they will be able to pick up new and nearly new aircraft in their single type fleets at rock bottom prices, while AA is still in debt from aircraft purchases they made before COVID, when aircraft were at a huge premium to what they are today and when financing was far more expensive than what it is today with the Fed flooding the market to try to stave off a recession.


https://seekingalpha.com/article/436...for-bankruptcy

Leisure is over when summer is over.

there is no business travel

Leisure is over when schools start back up. Of course if schools DON’T start back up, or they start up online, and if mom and dad are working online anyway, leisure may become a 12 month market...

theboob hahahahaha made me chuckle. This guy is out of his mind.

like I said, when summer is over. which is when schools start back up

whether it becomes a 12 month market or not will be depend on the receiving tourist destinations, closures, travel restrictions, park openings, etc.

[QUOTE=THKooj;3099552]Let me guess. You are an economist and have worked in airline management to know this information?

Right. NOT. Because it's absolutely incorrect. American has the biggest economy of scale of any of the legacy carriers and they are the best positioned to weather the crisis and come out with a large gain in market share on the other side. The proportionate savings in cost with this increased level of production solidifies that aspect.

I will say that I own a WARN letter and I am VERY bullish on American Airlines. In a worst case scenario, I wouldn't stoop to the level of working for one of those sweatshops.[/QUOTE
tool bag alert.....