Al Czervik

Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers on how many left for DL, UAL, FX and UPS?

Omniscient

6, 4, 2, and 2 for 2019..19 FOs total left and 5 CAs. People aren't leaving, thats a 1% attrition rate for pilots leaving for other airlines. So this kind of dispels the idea that the reason only 4 have left for AA is because of AA large flow numbers.

Do you have AA attrition numbers on pilots who have left for other airlines? Because I know pilots are currently even leaving SWA for other places. And to be honest, unless it says Delta, every airline has some serious improvements to do.

Al Czervik

thanks. I don’t. I want to say we’ve had guys leave for UAL/DL/FX/UPS over the past few years. A WAG is ~5-7 a year. Almost always a move to a place that has a base in their home town. I know that those airlines see the same numbers for the same reasons. AA had a couple DL guys come here this year. Not commuting is worth it’s weight in gold.

HalyardJammer

I know that at least 1 line check airman from Envoy skipped the flow last year.

havick206

And there were at least two lifers thy I know of that opted to flow for various reasons that can’t really be said in public.

iaveight

I came to the USA 3 years ago from Europe. Over there we did out and backs. You get spoiled being in your own bed every night. My first job in the USA was one of the Regionals with flow. I had the best gig you could get in the regionals - training department. Have to admit, travel got to me, even though I was positive spaced and car rental especially when a heath scare creeps up. The American group and my regional treated me well and based on numbers flow for me would have been 2 ish more years. What would I have gotten at American? Same lifestyle, a lot more money. For me wealth is secondary, being home nightly is my priority when looking at the long game. To each their own, do what’s best for you and your situation.

UnprotectdPilot

I think this is key. Everyone loves to compare salaries across the major carriers, but what's the difference in $270,000 and $300,000 gross earnings as a captain after taxes at that particular tax rate? It's proportionally insignificant. Ultimately, go where it suits your individual or family situation best. If you're about QOL, some of the LCCs are hard to ignore. If you're about maximum earning potential, better go to Delta... unless you're old, then the LCCs probably make more sense.

Al Czervik

..............

Squirrel27

There are things in the ULCC contracts, that AA doesn't have, that are very enticing. Spirit has that minimum 4 days off between sequences, or something like that. Frontier pays 125% on any credit over 82 hours. The schedule flexibility is unmatched at F9. Add/Swap/Drop at F9 is extremely powerful. Premium flying at 150%. At AA, what you get is basically what you fly (so I've been told). F9 has 150% deadhead middle seat pay.

Comparing W2s AA vs. F9, you'd be very surprised. It works for some people, it doesn't for others. It's important for each person to analyze their priorities and decide from that.

Doing the math, over the course of my career, I would make more money at F9 vs. waiting for the flow to AA. More money, sooner, and quicker upgrade. And that doesn't take into account any of the premium incentives at F9.

The bean counters at F9 and NK feel extremely confident and are working to prepare every day for the next recession, and whole heartedly believe their system will be profitable. Time will tell.

Cicada

Highly unlikely Ichan, but there are plenty more of his ilk more than willing to attack a company weakened by high debt load in a recession.