Come to Envoy?
10-21-2019 | 01:05 PM
#32
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
ditto
Ive had that too.
Its more of an issue when you have FOs with a bit of time (hence 3.5 bars) and now he thinks he can run the show and think they know the airplane, regs, etc., but don't. They dont want to listen to the CAs feedback and argue with you on every point. And because of lack of knowledge, they're usually wrong.
This is when you have to go the stick route, and put then in thier place because they are being dangerous and not practicing CRM.
Now - of course we have captains that also have these issues, but were talking about FOs who think they re captains already. And thats problematic.
Its more of an issue when you have FOs with a bit of time (hence 3.5 bars) and now he thinks he can run the show and think they know the airplane, regs, etc., but don't. They dont want to listen to the CAs feedback and argue with you on every point. And because of lack of knowledge, they're usually wrong.
This is when you have to go the stick route, and put then in thier place because they are being dangerous and not practicing CRM.
Now - of course we have captains that also have these issues, but were talking about FOs who think they re captains already. And thats problematic.
i have had 2 "senior" fo's that were dicks. the first when I was new sub 100 hrs in type and company and the 2nd was more recent.
The first i had to have a team chat with and let him know i valued his experience but i was responsible and he should speak up if anything is unsafe or not sop.
the second, i was PM and he called for flaps up in a bank right at acceleration in light to moderate at about 150kts, I delayed until he rolled out and put them up. He claimed i didn't understand maneuvering speed while at about 1000ft and tried to explain it... and i told him to shut up and fly.
The first i had to have a team chat with and let him know i valued his experience but i was responsible and he should speak up if anything is unsafe or not sop.
the second, i was PM and he called for flaps up in a bank right at acceleration in light to moderate at about 150kts, I delayed until he rolled out and put them up. He claimed i didn't understand maneuvering speed while at about 1000ft and tried to explain it... and i told him to shut up and fly.
10-21-2019 | 07:38 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 0
From: Resigned
It’s a shame upgrade is purely based on hours/seniority and not merit. If it was merit based I think this problem would disappear.
There is absolutely nothing more awkward than having a weak or inept CA try to “put you in your place” while you babysit him.
There is absolutely nothing more awkward than having a weak or inept CA try to “put you in your place” while you babysit him.
10-24-2019 | 10:30 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 20
(not saying YOU are that guy, but the VERY FEW FO’s I had issues with when I was with Eagle were universally weak, yet overbearing A-type personalities. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority were not, and were awesome pilots and people, but there were a few memorable douchebag FO’s who tried mightily to overpower me, to no avail. Remember too that you were once that brand new FO who needed babysitting by your captains for your first few hundred hours in type - or at the airline. New captains on type definitely need and want help and assistance from their experienced FO’s for their first few hundred hours in type, but don’t need or want the FO’s to take over the operation and be the quasi captains. The company nor the FAA condones that.)
And you are naive if you think “merit” at any company isn’t based on a good old boys club system. That system upgrades some of the most unqualified, inept pilots flying for any given company - usually a corporate or charter type of operation.
Last edited by 450knotOffice; 10-24-2019 at 10:49 PM.
10-25-2019 | 07:00 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
You’re coming from X-Jet so hopefully you understand:
1. How much the pay is for the job.
2. Where the bases are and where you live.
3. How seniority based bidding works.
We’ve go too many folks on here that whine about their commute, making ends meet, and being on reserve. All of which should be known before you sign on the line.
Honestly if it’s a dead end there take the check, the upgrade, and come on over. Especially if you can move to your base. The flow is real as long as the economy holds and AA is having training classes. The best part about it Is that you’re always making time toward your flow date. Lose your medical still marching toward it. Want to work in training, HQ, recruiting, or whatever after sitting reserve/flying the line for 2 years? You’re still closing I on that flow date. It’s the best insurance policy you can have while you try to get hired at a legacy, if that’s in fact the goal.
1. How much the pay is for the job.
2. Where the bases are and where you live.
3. How seniority based bidding works.
We’ve go too many folks on here that whine about their commute, making ends meet, and being on reserve. All of which should be known before you sign on the line.
Honestly if it’s a dead end there take the check, the upgrade, and come on over. Especially if you can move to your base. The flow is real as long as the economy holds and AA is having training classes. The best part about it Is that you’re always making time toward your flow date. Lose your medical still marching toward it. Want to work in training, HQ, recruiting, or whatever after sitting reserve/flying the line for 2 years? You’re still closing I on that flow date. It’s the best insurance policy you can have while you try to get hired at a legacy, if that’s in fact the goal.
10-25-2019 | 07:10 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,225
Likes: 61
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Yeah there is... flying with a 20,000 hour FO who only has 1,750 total time in their logbook... of which 250 hours is multi crew operations.
10-25-2019 | 07:30 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
You’re coming from X-Jet so hopefully you understand:
1. How much the pay is for the job.
2. Where the bases are and where you live.
3. How seniority based bidding works.
We’ve go too many folks on here that whine about their commute, making ends meet, and being on reserve. All of which should be known before you sign on the line.
Honestly if it’s a dead end there take the check, the upgrade, and come on over. Especially if you can move to your base. The flow is real as long as the economy holds and AA is having training classes. The best part about it Is that you’re always making time toward your flow date. Lose your medical still marching toward it. Want to work in training, HQ, recruiting, or whatever after sitting reserve/flying the line for 2 years? You’re still closing I on that flow date. It’s the best insurance policy you can have while you try to get hired at a legacy, if that’s in fact the goal.
1. How much the pay is for the job.
2. Where the bases are and where you live.
3. How seniority based bidding works.
We’ve go too many folks on here that whine about their commute, making ends meet, and being on reserve. All of which should be known before you sign on the line.
Honestly if it’s a dead end there take the check, the upgrade, and come on over. Especially if you can move to your base. The flow is real as long as the economy holds and AA is having training classes. The best part about it Is that you’re always making time toward your flow date. Lose your medical still marching toward it. Want to work in training, HQ, recruiting, or whatever after sitting reserve/flying the line for 2 years? You’re still closing I on that flow date. It’s the best insurance policy you can have while you try to get hired at a legacy, if that’s in fact the goal.
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