Cyio

Pretty sure it was their right gear.

NoValueAviator

Yeah. CA got his job back tho.

Pawnee235

What else did they say in the landing clearance? ATC did not advertise the 5/5/5 and leave it at that. Conveniently, there's more to that transmission than you're talking about.

ATC is obligated to give you the RwyCC when one is available. Please remember that these RwyCC can be old and conditions change rapidly.

Excargodog

Sorry, that’s what I meant to say. Brain f#$t. Will try to correct. But the point is the right gear collapsed after departing the runway to the left? It looked like the left main was on something solid.

rickair7777

There was no aileron input for sure, anybody know what the winds were?

The counter-productive component of reverse thrust actually comes into play if the plane is crabbed into the wind. More common for that to be a factor when the jet starts sliding downwind, pilot uses rudder to try to correct into the wind, inducing a crab and thereby aggravating the problem if the TRs are operating (in that case you need to idle the TRs as you correct the slide).

A little hard to make out, but I didn't see the plane crabbing UPWIND at all, which would be the instinctive reaction. Same with aileron use. Wondering if they had some malfunction which induced left yaw (stuck brake, asymmetric thrust, steering)? Any of those would be recoverable on a dry runway (BTDT)...

rickair7777

Due to circumstances I got a lot of experience with TALPA when it first came out, and ran a LOT of numbers to get a feel for it.

Anything with a "2" is very bad, and a 3 is hardly any better. I would not land a jet with a 2 or 3 anywhere in the mix unless I had 10+ kts literally straight down a 12,000+ runway. Assuming I could even get numbers out the box. Knew a guy had a 5/4/3 on a long runway (first winter with TALPA). They tried using a 3 for aerodata (like you're supposed to) and it said no-go, so they decided since the runway was long they could average the RCAM and go with a 4. Numbers came back good and off the end they went.

Of course GIGO applies if they RCAM values are old and no longer accurate.

pangolin

I know this thread is speculation but I’m a novice at the landing on snow thing and this information is quite educational and not well covered in training. Thanks.

captive apple

You can see south tower and the main tower in the same video. I don’t know how you can offer this suggestion of no high speeds.

DownInPetaluma

If there was even a tiny hint of tire cornering force after touchdown there would be a slight, perhaps imperceptible upwind weathervaning that would be enough to split the reverse vector and get the airplane moving downwind. If you look closely there is a drift to the right, correction to the left, increase in reverse, and finally the complete swing into the wind as the tail is pushed by the increasing vector and wind itself.

All true- what you said. Could be any one of us, unfortunately.

NeverHome

Yes you bring excellent points. A year or so ago I was landing a 145xr on a wet runway. 5-5-5 was given. They said near a taxi way and off the side of the runway was a puddle. I ran landing data through the acars a dozen times playing with different worst case scenarios. All checked out. Well upon landing I hydroplaned bad!! Full breaks full reverse- breaks didn’t do squat, reverse was the hero on that.

But the biggest surprise was with the tiller engaged I started yawing and couldn’t control it. Rudder, tiller and a whole lot of “********s” couldn’t help. Fortunately the runway started to slope up ever so slight and the breaks were able to grab. Basically it’s possible for the nose gear to hydroplane. Who knew?

Moral of the story: if your concerned enough to run landing data a lot and are spending way too much energy thinking about it, listen to that inner voice and divert. Data may be expired or inaccurate, if the conditions are such that your asking questions, don’t do it. Just my .02