Envoy 2020
 

Welcome to 2020, Year of the Cost-Neutral Contract Negotiations.

No more CRJs.
More new 175s.
Possible used CPZ 175s.
No more protected pilots.

Here's to hoping for a higher flow rate and improved reserve rules! Cheers.

Cheers!


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And the first quarter that didn’t begin with a vacancy.

Why do you remind me of this unfortunate reality? I worked so hard for my times 😭😭

So someone I know interviewed for the east coast cheif pilot position. They were specifically looking for someone in Miami as they’ll be manning that office. According to them, during the interview process management said Miami will see a significant increase in flying in 2020 and they are prepping now for the growth. Hence the new Miami Cheif pilot position.

Was it the same guy they interviewed for the LAX chief pilot spot? :D

Not accurate. Miami is set at 50-65 lines for the foreseeable future. It will probably drop when the max comes back.

The 175 will see increased flying in New York, AAG is trying to get single class RJ's out of business markets.

Anyone able to share what seniority number a DCL would need to hold a decent commutable line?

Source?......

I’m just short of three years and can’t hold a line DCL and will be loosing relative seniority at least the next four months so will be over three years to see a line.

Good god seriously? Well there goes that idea for awhile lol.

Most junior DCL lineholder for January is a 12/2016 hire. It's a somewhat commutable line.

No. You aren't accurate. Previous poster correct. MIA set to grow.

You make a lot of assertions and have a lot of insider information for someone that allegedly flowed to AA. Time to go back to TalkAirline and rattle off the 2021 paranoia.

Damn I wish I worked for Delta. Average bonus payout equal to two months pay. Cant wait to see what we get lol.

no, no please dont force him to do that.

So whos got a sneak peak at the numbers for the next vacancy bid

I wouldn't waste my time with a forum that is long vacant and dusty where someone just forgot to turn out the lights. There is one guy there in that empty house ranting about 2021 to nothing but echoes. He has no idea at all what is happening now much less in 2021. I've got news. 2020 AS WELL AS 2021 are going to be stunning for Envoy both in the amount of growth and the flow dropping to a very, very low number in years from new hire date to flow.

So please, all knowing one. EXPLAIN HOW the flow can drastically be cut for new hires when twice as many are being hired as flow. If you have all this inside knowledge just show the math.

Simple. Retirements. Go take a look at the AA retirements over the next 3 years alone and get back to me. The flow will be enhanced greatly. For one, look at the loads of pipeline instructor talent Envoy has on the sideline matriculating in as fast as training can CURRENTLY process them. Those guys are being hired for American Airlines and as I've said before, Envoy has the corner market on the pipeline program. It has proven to be the best thing since sliced bread. I'm personally an advocate of Envoy hiring ONLY pipeline candidates. Why hire a military guy who just needs to get the 121 time on the resume and will leave soon after? Or, is it necessary to hire Jim Bob Moses who has been flying a Baron for Wildcatter Oil as an Envoy/AA pilot? The answer is no. He doesn't fit the mold at all. And with the pipeline numbers in the waiting room, there are your AA pilots.

THKooj,

Can you please have a meeting with your contacts to give us “The Envoy” pilots an AA # now, so we don’t jump ship for a moms and pops joint like an ACMI or ULCC.

According to the new vacancy, you're wrong.

You're a sock/troll account anyways.

Anyways, to get this forum back on track, any potential New Hires can expect the 175.

102 175 FO slots
55 145 FO slots
Nothing for NY either, not that it'd be hard to transfer there if you want it.

You are not wrong that AA needs more pilots. No one will debate that. But NONE of the majors have a problem hiring enough people.
Everyone knows the flow is not to staff AA.
That doesn’t explain the math of how Envoy gets them there. Especially doesn’t explain how you can decrease the amount of time when hiring twice as many as flowing.

But with the new vacancy, as well as the line count forecast, just proved you wrong about MIA, so I guess your info is, as everyone has said, nothing but BS propaganda.

You admitted you were a little bit of a KoolAid drinker. Maybe you need your memory refreshed. There were only a few that survived and they DIDN’T drink the KoolAid. They escaped. So you just keep chug a lugging.

Those slots are more for facilitating base transfers. They can quickly become meaningless when new hires show up to class. New hires should still expect ORD 175 and LGA 145 for the near future.

LGA has more than double the FOs as lines. LGA is as overstaffed as possible.

Except the fact that AA released numbers for hiring and it accounts for 20/month flow from Envoy and massive off the street hiring. So who's lying, you or AA?

The question is will AA start hiring more from MQ. That’s the only way a 5-6 year flow makes sense

Envoy pilots getting hired off the street decreases flow, not increase. Since we will be flowing based on the lower of a percentage of pilots on the seniority list. If we got all the way down to 480 pilots at Envoy it would still be an 8 year flow, becauce it's the lesser of pilots on property or based on 25% of Americans hiring, not the greater of. After DOS guys leaving above you does nothing to help your flow date.

Right, but with this bid, several LGA FO's will transfer to other bases leaving backfills to be filled by new hires. Every FO position has at least 1 reserve for every 2 lineholders. Over staffing is the Envoy way.

Not just over staffing. Inefficiency is the Envoy way. Considering how cheap the company is, the way it inefficiently staffs tells just how cheaply we are compensated.

Pilots leaving on top of you will speed the flow if Management can keep up with the attrition with new hires. If they cant then pilots leaving either side of you will theoretically slow your flow date.

Correct. If they can keep new hire rates higher than attrtition your flow will stay the same/be quicker. However if they can't keep up with attrtition your flow will slow down. We'll just have to see what happens this year.

Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.

Everyone’s argument for decreased flow time don’t take into account the facts of this flow formula. As body count goes down, so does flow. And to the best of my knowledge, the arbitrated adjustment of a few per month of the PPs and the increase to the 10/11 group, adjustments to flow don’t affect current groups, any new agreements will affect new pilots. And there is still a lot of pilots that will have to flow at the lower rates.

There could definitely be a new flow agreement that affects DOS pilots, we'll just have to see what happens, especially with the opener this year. But generally it's either been better pay/QOL or more flow, not both.

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but you can check the flow through selection page on the envoy website under flight.

I couldn't find what I was looking for. Interested in at what seniority level people are actually getting picked to go at. Is it 300, 400, 250 etc. I dont have the names/emplyee numbers in front of me to look and see.

Those who had the next class date as well as everyone who has been selected for flow were highlighted in the document that the union posted last week on the ALPA website including their seniority numbers.

Thanks for that, sadly looking like 200's range is where we need to be to flow out. That is a long road to look down for a new hire coming in at 2000.