Where is Charlie Bucket?
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Quit trolling.
I highly doubt the Voy would want that either. Every Flowback would be a training event and put one more trained Envoy pilot on the street that would have to be retrained when recalled. Lots of expense and zero benefit to the company.
I highly doubt the Voy would want that either. Every Flowback would be a training event and put one more trained Envoy pilot on the street that would have to be retrained when recalled. Lots of expense and zero benefit to the company.
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 181
So correct me if I am wrong, but how did you come up with "half" of new hire pilots being Envoy? We are long past those days are we not? While your assumptions are great about the flow value going up, they are all tied to AA being able to stay afloat, not file BK, not change our contract etc. I think it is an overly optimistic view to think AA will skate past this and not file BK.
Trust me, I hope you are right, I just dont think you are.
Trust me, I hope you are right, I just dont think you are.
#115
All of those extra seats will just be a bunch of military and street hires jumping ahead of the flows on the AA seniority list.
I'm not sure why anyone would want flowbacks. I don't think anyone is asking for them.
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Resigned
Posts: 1,547
It all depends on class sizes and monthly new hires. If AA hires 60 per month or less, the WO flows will get about half the seats. If it is 100 per month, the WOs will account about a third of the seats.
All of those extra seats will just be a bunch of military and street hires jumping ahead of the flows on the AA seniority list.
I'm not sure why anyone would want flowbacks. I don't think anyone is asking for them.
All of those extra seats will just be a bunch of military and street hires jumping ahead of the flows on the AA seniority list.
I'm not sure why anyone would want flowbacks. I don't think anyone is asking for them.
#117
They didn't get to flow over and bid with their 13 year seniority number either. AMR played games with that too....
The company will push APA for scope exceptions so they can run smaller planes on the routes until the loads pick back up to some agreed upon metric.
The opportunity here is to merge all the airlines. Not sure the sixth floor can get that far outside the box; but this would be the time to do it. Restructuring into one big carrier saves them a ton of administration costs. It wipes out the majority of scope issues, allowing them to right size the plane to the route. The APA and ENY ALPA would have to again agree to a modified CBA and pay rate plan that AAG previously said would work for the pilots, but nothing similar had yet been negotiated by the other work groups.
The downside is an AA furlough could be a few thousand easily; that could put everybody currently at ENY on the street. So, rather than simply dust off the old APA/EGL ALPA agreement outline, I'd suggest a modification to include some level of furlough protection. A furlough fence where only a certain percentage would be allowed to bid down to the smaller jets.... say 50%.
The fence would stop at the last pilot hired at DOS. after that nobody has any fence protection. It would be a straight from the bottom furlough.
just spit-balling ways to make this work for the pilots in the long run.
Last edited by Cujo665; 07-02-2020 at 07:13 AM.
#118
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
That didn't work so well for the first four party agreement. Took them 13 years to flow, after losing their left seats to flowbacks, and FO's not upgrading, being pushed down the seniority list, and furloughed from the bottom.
They didn't get to flow over and bid with their 13 year seniority number either. AMR played games with that too....
The company will push APA for scope exceptions so they can run smaller planes on the routes until the loads pick back up to some agreed upon metric.
The opportunity here is to merge all the airlines. Not sure the sixth floor can get that far outside the box; but this would be the time to do it. Restructuring into one big carrier saves them a ton of administration costs. It wipes out the majority of scope issues, allowing them to right size the plane to the route. The APA and ENY ALPA would have to again agree to a modified CBA and pay rate plan that AAG previously said would work for the pilots, but nothing similar had yet been negotiated by the other work groups.
The downside is an AA furlough could be a few thousand easily; that could put everybody currently at ENY on the street. So, rather than simply dust off the old APA/EGL ALPA agreement outline, I'd suggest a modification to include some level of furlough protection. A furlough fence where only a certain percentage would be allowed to bid down to the smaller jets.... say 50%.
The fence would stop at the last pilot hired at DOS. after that nobody has any fence protection. It would be a straight from the bottom furlough.
just spit-balling ways to make this work for the pilots in the long run.
They didn't get to flow over and bid with their 13 year seniority number either. AMR played games with that too....
The company will push APA for scope exceptions so they can run smaller planes on the routes until the loads pick back up to some agreed upon metric.
The opportunity here is to merge all the airlines. Not sure the sixth floor can get that far outside the box; but this would be the time to do it. Restructuring into one big carrier saves them a ton of administration costs. It wipes out the majority of scope issues, allowing them to right size the plane to the route. The APA and ENY ALPA would have to again agree to a modified CBA and pay rate plan that AAG previously said would work for the pilots, but nothing similar had yet been negotiated by the other work groups.
The downside is an AA furlough could be a few thousand easily; that could put everybody currently at ENY on the street. So, rather than simply dust off the old APA/EGL ALPA agreement outline, I'd suggest a modification to include some level of furlough protection. A furlough fence where only a certain percentage would be allowed to bid down to the smaller jets.... say 50%.
The fence would stop at the last pilot hired at DOS. after that nobody has any fence protection. It would be a straight from the bottom furlough.
just spit-balling ways to make this work for the pilots in the long run.
Just saying. That will never happen.
Neither will the merger.
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