Where is Charlie Bucket?
07-01-2020 | 05:21 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
I’m going to have to disagree with the apparent consensus here. This downturn will likely prove to vastly increase the value of the flow. If your goal is to get to a Major, it appears that UAL and DAL may be a good 5-6 years away from taking new hires again. AA is probably 1-2 years. That means there will be a good few years where AA is the only game in town. During that time you’ll have WO pilots taking up around half of all the new hire slots at the only major hiring. That’ll both help those flowing, and those below them (movement).
Obviously no one is going to flow in the time they hoped (or were promised), but no one is getting street hired anywhere with 300 TPIC anytime soon either. The comparative value of the flow, in my opinion, has gone up, not down.
Also, for those saying the seniority is meaningless...
Seniority is QOL and pay at the job you currently hold. If you’ve never been in aviation during a downturn, then here’s my two cents:
Make the best of the job you have. You never know how long you’ll be here.
Obviously no one is going to flow in the time they hoped (or were promised), but no one is getting street hired anywhere with 300 TPIC anytime soon either. The comparative value of the flow, in my opinion, has gone up, not down.
Also, for those saying the seniority is meaningless...
Seniority is QOL and pay at the job you currently hold. If you’ve never been in aviation during a downturn, then here’s my two cents:
Make the best of the job you have. You never know how long you’ll be here.
07-01-2020 | 06:21 AM
#102
Banned
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Seniority is king during a downturn no matter where you work. What ever seniority you were once March of this year hit, expect to stay there for a long long time.
07-01-2020 | 06:25 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,174
Likes: 157
I’m going to have to disagree with the apparent consensus here. This downturn will likely prove to vastly increase the value of the flow. If your goal is to get to a Major, it appears that UAL and DAL may be a good 5-6 years away from taking new hires again. AA is probably 1-2 years. That means there will be a good few years where AA is the only game in town. During that time you’ll have WO pilots taking up around half of all the new hire slots at the only major hiring. That’ll both help those flowing, and those below them (movement).
Obviously no one is going to flow in the time they hoped (or were promised), but no one is getting street hired anywhere with 300 TPIC anytime soon either. The comparative value of the flow, in my opinion, has gone up, not down.
Also, for those saying the seniority is meaningless...
Seniority is QOL and pay at the job you currently hold. If you’ve never been in aviation during a downturn, then here’s my two cents:
Make the best of the job you have. You never know how long you’ll be here.
Obviously no one is going to flow in the time they hoped (or were promised), but no one is getting street hired anywhere with 300 TPIC anytime soon either. The comparative value of the flow, in my opinion, has gone up, not down.
Also, for those saying the seniority is meaningless...
Seniority is QOL and pay at the job you currently hold. If you’ve never been in aviation during a downturn, then here’s my two cents:
Make the best of the job you have. You never know how long you’ll be here.
Trust me, I hope you are right, I just dont think you are.
07-01-2020 | 06:29 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,174
Likes: 157
I would like to add, this is exactly why you always want to push for pay increases over bonuses, qol changes that are contractual and good solid contract language.
07-01-2020 | 07:42 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 793
Likes: 0
From: FO
Where is Charlie Bucket?
I too am shocked the advise being given indirectly is that SENIORITY DOES NOT MATTER AT THE REGIONALS!
A few on here have been warning pilots.
Envoy can become a career destination unintentionally! Especially as mainline hiring trends & various corporation & society clout towards diversity, not to talk future economic down cycle/ geo political issues & future regulatory mandates for the airlines since the Gov’t own I dear say 50 billion in grants/loans/warrants.
Folks SENIORITY MATTERS NO MATTER THE AIRLINE!
07-01-2020 | 07:59 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 793
Likes: 0
From: FO
Thank you!!!
Exactly! When you believe it’s a career & you treat it like a career you expect from the company more!
This is why Mainline loves & promulgates flow at the WO. to SUBVERT demands for better contract, 401k, and long-term QOL/reserve improvements!
Flow = AAG’s tool and not the other way around! They have always had the leverage!
Careers focus is why Skywest and Republic pilots have better contracts, QOL, and overall pay (bonus/profit sharing/ etc)!
Seniority and QOL advancements at Envoy should have been MEC’s focus over the past 3-4 years, not FLOW.
Envoy will always flow when AA needs it. Make AA want to flow envoy pilots with a better contract and longevity pay at envoy.
07-01-2020 | 11:49 AM
#107
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Driver
Thank you!!!
Exactly! When you believe it’s a career & you treat it like a career you expect from the company more!
This is why Mainline loves & promulgates flow at the WO. to SUBVERT demands for better contract, 401k, and long-term QOL/reserve improvements!
Flow = AAG’s tool and not the other way around! They have always had the leverage!
Careers focus is why Skywest and Republic pilots have better contracts, QOL, and overall pay (bonus/profit sharing/ etc)!
Seniority and QOL advancements at Envoy should have been MEC’s focus over the past 3-4 years, not FLOW.
Envoy will always flow when AA needs it. Make AA want to flow envoy pilots with a better contract and longevity pay at envoy.
Exactly! When you believe it’s a career & you treat it like a career you expect from the company more!
This is why Mainline loves & promulgates flow at the WO. to SUBVERT demands for better contract, 401k, and long-term QOL/reserve improvements!
Flow = AAG’s tool and not the other way around! They have always had the leverage!
Careers focus is why Skywest and Republic pilots have better contracts, QOL, and overall pay (bonus/profit sharing/ etc)!
Seniority and QOL advancements at Envoy should have been MEC’s focus over the past 3-4 years, not FLOW.
Envoy will always flow when AA needs it. Make AA want to flow envoy pilots with a better contract and longevity pay at envoy.
Heard there is a Flowthru/Flowback provision in the works.
07-01-2020 | 11:55 AM
#108
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 81
From: AOG
I highly doubt that the Envoy MEC is going to allow flowbacks when they are being told that furloughs are coming. Accepting you on the seniority list would put more of our pilots on the street. Where is the benefit in that? The Envoy pilots should shoot themselves in the foot to get an AA seniority number that is worthless for a couple of years so that we can listen to a flowback tell us how great things are at mainline as they taxi out of G19 and smash into a barrier? Flowback Mountain will rise again!!!
07-01-2020 | 12:38 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,174
Likes: 157
Good luck. I would just assume quit than vote for that considering mainline pilots do exactly zero to better our cause.
Now you all want to talk about merging the pilot group and forming a single union, something good for all, we can talk about flow backs.
Now you all want to talk about merging the pilot group and forming a single union, something good for all, we can talk about flow backs.
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