At my previous carrier we had a guy who absolutely believed everyone's motivation for doing anything had to be the same as his. In discussions on fitness, his only thought in staying lean and fit was to chase tail, so therefore that must be what my primary motivation must be. Nothing could be further from the truth. Same was true of career motivations, the things that he found important obviously must be what everyone found important; again nothing could be further from the truth. Some of your approach to this reminds me of that. What motivation you have for your career is great for you, but not everybody has those same motivations.

For me, I had a 30 year career, but I was burned out, flying redeye after redeye, and I couldn't keep doing it. It was detrimental to my health, both physically and mentally. So I did a lot of napkin math, made sure I could retire, and did...then I found out retirement when your wife is still working full time is far less about travel, scuba diving, skiing, going on adventures, and more about sitting around bored to tears, watching YouTube, and feeding our cats. After almost a year, it was time for me to start feeling productive again.

As you said, I could have written my ticket at AA, DL, SW, UA, but I didn't want to. I've done 16 years flying at a major, 11 years doing mostly transcon redeyes. That doesn't interest me anymore. Most guys want to fly for the majors and get into the heavy iron, fly over water for 13 hours at a time, "see the world." The A321 was the biggest plane I've flown and it's bigger than anything I ever wanted to fly. I enjoyed my 6 years on the E190 a lot more, and of that, most of what I liked was short hops up and down the west coast from LGB. So this type of flying, coupled with the almost 12 years I spent at Eagle before it was "Envoy," and the offer of coming back as a DEC with credit for my years in the industry, was enough to bring me out of retirement.

I fully get all of my friends who flowed through to AA, plus those who still work at JB, or moved onto other majors, will hear I've come back to Envoy and ask what I'm thinking, but what they think doesn't matter, only that this is where I wanted to go. I think with all of the other gray hair in the room yesterday, there are others who know things aren't the wonderland the majors are made out to be, and starting off back here as a DEC is a pretty good deal to us. Lots of people won't get it, but that's ok.

 

Apologies for the tone of my previous post. In no way am I asking anyone to specially justify the reason why DEC at Envoy is right for them right now. It’s a good company flying great equipment and I value every hour I spent there. I also had a long rough road that led me there; timing and circumstances were not exactly optimal in my case either.

I am asking, generally speaking, who (backgrounds) are the DECs? Some have answered the why for them specifically, and I fully support those that do what is right for them.

More specifically, the qualified applicants for the majority of 121 jobs are dwindling. I am surprised Envoy is finding them. Genuine curiosity where they are coming from.

Congrats to all who found this to be a great deal, I am happy for you, and it is a good deal. I’m not trying to start the topic at all of why any individual would choose Envoy, just generally where the DECs are coming from…. Currently flying regional pilots, or a completely other category?

 

My guess, and this is only a guess based on the aforementioned gray hair in the room yesterday, is a lot of us are coming out of retirement, or coming back to 121 after leaving for corporate/135 gigs that aren't as lucrative. At least one guy was within 5 years of mandatory retirement yesterday. I did hear from a couple who were transitioning from another regional, but I think they're the smaller number in the group.

 

It's nice to see folks sharing info, so I thought I'd add the following as a supplement to everything else that's been well stated above.

RE: the overall DEC hiring process:
1st visit: Logbook, Urinalysis, Fingerprints... half-day, it starts early, they will fly you in the night before and provide a hotel
2nd visit: "Orientation"... half-day (same as above) and you'll end the day with a seniority number, a class start date, being on payroll
3rd visit: Day 1 of Class (this is when you will bid for base and seat assignments)

How seniority numbers were assigned:
Cadets first, then those with previous Part 121 hours
The individual with the most number of 121 hours was at the top of the list, with the person having the next highest number of 121 hours immediately below them
IIRC, those with "qualifying" 121.436 time (eg, 135, 91K, 500 hours of military) were racked and stacked after all the regular 121 folks

Class Date assignments:
Cadets were assigned to the very next class
After that, those with the highest seniority (ie, highest number of Part 121 hours) started soonest, everyone else gets slotted into subsequent class dates based on seniority (highest-to-lowest)

Pay:
For the time between "Orientation" and Day-1 of Class: $90/hr x 64 hours
Starting on Day-1 of Class:
Those that bid FO will be paid at their "longevity rate" x 64 hours mo while in training
Those that bid CA will be paid at their "longevity rate" x 72 hours a mo while in training

Have the following available during the "Orientation" visit:
Passport (for employment verification)
Notebook/iPad/Tablet/smartphone (whichever works for you, but you will be setting up your company www access (in real-time) as part of this visit)

OBTW:
As someone stated above, if you have 950+ Part 121 hours, REGARDLESS if you bid CA or FO, you will:
Train as a CA
Do your type ride as a CA
Be observed by a Fed as a CA

NB:
During training, those that bid FO will only be paid 64 hours/mo (even though they are training as a CA) vs the 72 hours/mo that will be paid to those that bid for the left-seat
Those that bid FO will fly in the right-seat until they decide to move seats (assuming there is a vacancy) and will not return to the schoolhouse for any additional training

Logistics:
Visit 1: the hotel shuttle is on-demand... so call the front desk when you're ready to be picked-up
Visit 2: ditto the above (and it generally runs every 30 minutes)
You can bring all of your travel kit to the "Orientation" briefing room as there will be ample space to store it in the room itself

General vibe:
The Director of Training very refreshingly stated (my paraphrasing): "We're a service department, we're here to help you succeed."
For me, personally, it was a much-appreciated, and much different, mindset from my previous (successful, but not well organized) 121 training experience
A 180+ page ERJ 175 study guide was electronically distributed to all of the "Orientation" attendees the same day that we were there

Hope this helps.

 

Very good gouge for those starting the process. Thanks for taking the time to do so as these are a lot of the questions that get asked regularly. The need to sticky this to the top of the Envoy page.

Best of luck to you.

I will add that if you have a good attitude and trying in training, SOMEONE will work with you. Sometimes the best source can be someone in your own group. Most of the line qualified instructors are great. Very hit and miss with the “professional” instructors that have never flown with Envoy. Mark S hasn’t seen the line for a while, but as long as YOU'RE not an idiot and can handle his personality, he is one of THE best instructors I have ever had. The man knows the 175 systems and can teach you them as well.

 

Mark and I flew the Saab at the same time. I knew him out on the line, and also when he moved to the training center. He was the instructor in my E145 class, and as stated above, is absolutely one of the best instructors in aircraft knowledge and ability to teach. I found in years past that if I did the work I needed to do, class and sim work at Eagle would have you way overprepared for a checkride, which I'd much rather be than underprepared.

 

Thanks for posting this. Maybe, this is going too far down the rabbit hole, but with those bidding to be an FO, are they training and qualifying them as a CA so that the company can switch them over into the left seat on demand basically? I was still under the impression that everyone with the 950hr+ was going straight to the CA seniority list at this point with no option to be an FO. Sounds like all the CAs and FOs are getting DFW either way, did they give any indication whether if you manage to stay on the FO side, you'd still be able to bid to another base in not too long of a time?

 

All CA eligible new hires will complete training as a CA (ie. sim training will be mostly left seat and IOE will be 50 hrs with a fed ride at the end) regardless of what they bid and are awarded. That said, CA eligible new hires can still bid and be awarded FO if available and still get paid as a CA with longevity match. We were told in orientation that the max we would be allowed to stay in the right seat before being forced over to CA would be about 6 months. Hope that helps.

One question I have for anyone in the know is, since we will all be trained as CA's, can we pick up trips in open time from either seat?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

 

Don’t get ahead of yourself.

 

This is a VERY new thing. Honestly so far outside the box from anything Envoy has done. Currently, all captains are required to do right seat familiarization during recurrent. FOs are not a limiting factor right now but there is as far as I know no means of captains picking up on the FO side. As far as those captain qualified FOs go, I would say the same is true. But if you want to fly as a captain then you need to bid as a captain. Not going to be able to pick and choose.