The benefit the company gets from a good deal is attrition might slow and they have someone to fly their jets for them.

If airline management insists on trying to have their cake and eat it too then it's all gonna collapse.

Bottom line.

Bottom line is this LOA will pass. Union is promoting and selling it as a good deal. We ve seen this story in the past. They ll pass it and claim most of their emails and such from membership supported it.

^^This should really surprise no one who has been here for awhile. "Oh, but we're getting PBS anyway" = ok sure one day, but it shouldn't equal rolling over and agreeing to "super negotiations" for it.

super negotiations for some super flow for others

I’m beginning to fear you’re correct.

look, the MEC should redraft the QOL LOA into two separate LOA’s.
one with all the QOL stuff, and the other with just PBS.
they should return the QOL LOA as MEC approved and ratified, and the PBS one as posted pending pilot group approval since it’s a significant change to both work rules and compensation.

if it’s such a great thing for the pilots, let the company explain why they won’t approve QOL without PBS.

the answer is because it’s a huge concession

by the way, PBS is a significant change to both work rules and compensation and as such the Envoy MEC by-laws require a pilot vote.

if something as large as this package can be MEC ratified without a pilot vote then when would they ever be required to let you vote.

tesmsters airline group went through this crap and eliminated the ratification of anything without a pilot vote. Guess what, we still get all the little improvements as the shortage worsens too. It’s the lazy ALPA lawyers telling the MEC they can ratify instead of pilot vote because in the lawyers words “you, the MEC, decides what - significant change - means.” Most abused by-law language in the book

if you’re an outstanding lawyer you do 1 high profile case a year (OJ type lawyer)
if you’re a great lawyer you make it big in business and international law
if you’re a really good lawyer you join a successful firm
if you’re a good lawyer you start your own firm doing everything from tort to probable law.
If you’re just an average lawyer you become a ADA or public defender
if you can’t even do that, you become a labor union lawyer or enter politics.

If it’s anything like what I constantly heard from PSA union members, it’s “you vote for your representatives, that’s how you voice your opinion. Sending things to a pilot vote constantly just wastes time.”

That’s how we wound up with such improvements as forced upgrades in reverse seniority with no displacement protections, and a bucket system that gets constantly abused for reserves.

I’m top 15% and I’ve never had the chance to vote on a single thing other than reps.

Idk, I get why people are so hawkish about it because this is truly a miserable, miserable place to work and we all know who's responsible for it are the same people who are going to put the PBS system together.

BUT, our leverage is simply that everyone is leaving, and everyone is going to continue to leave under this agreement. I'm not coming out in support of the LOAs I think the "QOL" one is particularly sketchy (who cares about the bonus scheme). I just haven't made up my mind.

The big risk here is riding out a recession getting tortured by horrible PBS.

PBS
 

PBS works GREAT “if” you have great work rules and trip rigs. Garbage In equals Garbage Out. If you have excellent work rules you’ll love PBS. If you have crappy work rules you’ll hate PBS.

From the company’s view, PBS will cut down on manning requirements by up to 30% by eliminating conflicts (training, vacation, month to month bidding) allowing it to staff more with the people it has. Envoys schedules will start to mirror Piedmont’s (min days off for min guarantee, trip credits averaging 4hrs per day etc.). Not a direction anyone with an appreciation for QOL should look forward to going.