The useful Envoy thread
#521
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 332
Oh this has got to be the case. There cannot be two them like this!
#522
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,940
Yeah...that will be the Great Lakes...sorry. Not where we need to go as a profession and not what will attract folks spending $150+ for ratings!
As for Bzzt and his "we don't have a pilot shortage"...yeah...we do. And yes, I've been in this industry long enough to have heard decades of the likes of Kit Darby saying it's coming. ALPA knows it but is positioning itself to see a consolidation. ALPA is also trying to protect (rightfully in my opinion at this point) the 1500 rule. And frankly, ALPA is a major airline union and until the majors have a hiring problem...ALPA won't see the problem.
As for our decision...it was the right one. So was ExpressJet/ASA and Republic. We need to get over this "we're a regional pilot so we're inferior "!@# stuff.
What's our power...stand up and say, "I'm a highly trained professional. I've spent untold years of training, thousands and thousands of dollars in education, and I deserve better". I WILL NOT ACCEPT POVERTY WAGES WITH A 10 YEAR TERM TO PERPETUATE THIS INDUSTRY.
You actually do have power...you have the skill that NOW is finally in demand. Time to insert a stiff piece of metal up the butt and demand, throughout this industry, that we are paid what we are worth. Good lord, I taught undergraduates that expected and GOT wages higher than our senior captains RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE. The era of 50K being a high wage for a highly skilled, trained, college educated individual who has spent what we spend on education and a degree are OVER. NO kid these days is gonna put up with that (and I'm not a kid---wish I were in my 30's again)...neither should we.
As for Bzzt and his "we don't have a pilot shortage"...yeah...we do. And yes, I've been in this industry long enough to have heard decades of the likes of Kit Darby saying it's coming. ALPA knows it but is positioning itself to see a consolidation. ALPA is also trying to protect (rightfully in my opinion at this point) the 1500 rule. And frankly, ALPA is a major airline union and until the majors have a hiring problem...ALPA won't see the problem.
As for our decision...it was the right one. So was ExpressJet/ASA and Republic. We need to get over this "we're a regional pilot so we're inferior "!@# stuff.
What's our power...stand up and say, "I'm a highly trained professional. I've spent untold years of training, thousands and thousands of dollars in education, and I deserve better". I WILL NOT ACCEPT POVERTY WAGES WITH A 10 YEAR TERM TO PERPETUATE THIS INDUSTRY.
You actually do have power...you have the skill that NOW is finally in demand. Time to insert a stiff piece of metal up the butt and demand, throughout this industry, that we are paid what we are worth. Good lord, I taught undergraduates that expected and GOT wages higher than our senior captains RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE. The era of 50K being a high wage for a highly skilled, trained, college educated individual who has spent what we spend on education and a degree are OVER. NO kid these days is gonna put up with that (and I'm not a kid---wish I were in my 30's again)...neither should we.
#523
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Not all regional pilots, some of us don't want to be permanently junior at an enormous legacy airline.
#524
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 115
Regional pilots currently have to compete against corporate and military guys for spots at the majors. If regionals don't exist, once you're on a legacy's list, any military or corporate guy that gets hired is going to be below you.
You won't spend wasted years accruing seniority at an airline you'll eventually leave for a legacy.
#525
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
Nice assumptions. Hypothetically, just because regionals cease to exist does not magically transport everyone to a major airline seniority list. There will be those left to the street and the pool of available jobs for everyone interested in an airline career will drastically shrink. It's nice to skip to the finish in a story, but the fallout to get there can't be ignored.
#526
There are all kinds of pilots with the ratings and time who sit at desks all day and make great money and awesome QoL, I am one of them.
I'd take a 30% pay cut for 1 wk on and one off or similar schedule but there's no way I'll do it for 22k a year.
Pay comes up, bs management stuff stops, pilots come out of the wood work and $mart kids will want to ri$k 150k to be a pilot.
Of course for that to happen pigs will fly too
#527
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 115
Nice assumptions. Hypothetically, just because regionals cease to exist does not magically transport everyone to a major airline seniority list. There will be those left to the street and the pool of available jobs for everyone interested in an airline career will drastically shrink. It's nice to skip to the finish in a story, but the fallout to get there can't be ignored.
#528
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
How would you be permanently junior, unless you're saying no one above you would ever retire and no one would ever be hired below you?
Regional pilots currently have to compete against corporate and military guys for spots at the majors. If regionals don't exist, once you're on a legacy's list, any military or corporate guy that gets hired is going to be below you.
You won't spend wasted years accruing seniority at an airline you'll eventually leave for a legacy.
Regional pilots currently have to compete against corporate and military guys for spots at the majors. If regionals don't exist, once you're on a legacy's list, any military or corporate guy that gets hired is going to be below you.
You won't spend wasted years accruing seniority at an airline you'll eventually leave for a legacy.
I don't agree that the years spent at a regional are "wasted" if you acquire the seniority to have good qol at a regional it's not a horrible job.
#529
I'm surprised this hasn't made it here yet.
AA wants the 175's to mainline, among other things.
AA wants the 175's to mainline, among other things.
Joint President's Message: JCBA expectations
In the near future, our joint negotiating committees will be passing more substantial proposals at the table based on the joint guidance provided to the committees.
The merger of American Airlines and US Airways has proven to be an enormous financial success. Having played a pivotal role in making this merger come together, the pilots of both airlines have earned the right to share in the upside. As so often occurs in this industry, things change.
American Airlines' financial performance is already in line with industry-leader Delta Air Lines in almost every meaningful category. From pre-tax margin to net profit to passenger yield to total revenue to EBITAR and other categories, American is in line with and in some instances exceeding Delta's financial performance. We have compiled a financial performance comparison chart that drives home these points.
Management recently communicated to investors that "anticipated upside synergies are just beginning." The pilots at the new American Airlines are more productive than Delta pilots by a good margin (four more block hours flown per pilot per month in 2013, according to Form 41 data). That's impressive considering Delta pilots have been on preferential bidding for years. Our productivity will only increase as we make our transition to PBS.
If we are more productive than Delta pilots, we can look management squarely in the eye and demand Delta compensation, including profit-sharing.
We intend to make the case for our pilots flying E175s and other similar-sized aircraft. The pilot shortage at the regional carriers — driven by poverty-level wages for new hires — is real and materializing sooner than the industry anticipated. The carrier that abandons the regional experiment first and commits to a consistent quality product for passengers, with a reliable supply of highly qualified pilots, will win the day. We will strongly encourage management to restore American Airlines to the position of industry leader and innovator, particularly in the area of mainline pilots performing regional jet flying.
During the Conditional Labor Agreement and MOU negotiations, we willingly signed up for a JCBA process with an arbitration back-stop if an agreement cannot be reached. Management wanted a process with certainty. Agreeing to an arbitration back-stop was the price of admission to the merger path. But with the merger succeeding beyond the most optimistic expectations, an arbitrated solution would be a dismal failure for both sides. The opportunity to align our interests with management's and to share in the upside would be lost. Conversely, immediately closing our pay gap with Delta would be the single most tangible sign management could offer to remove any doubt that they are serious about creating a better relationship with the pilots of American Airlines.
We will share more details with you in the near future as negotiations continue and more substantive proposals are passed at the table.
The time to close the gap with Delta is now.
In the near future, our joint negotiating committees will be passing more substantial proposals at the table based on the joint guidance provided to the committees.
The merger of American Airlines and US Airways has proven to be an enormous financial success. Having played a pivotal role in making this merger come together, the pilots of both airlines have earned the right to share in the upside. As so often occurs in this industry, things change.
American Airlines' financial performance is already in line with industry-leader Delta Air Lines in almost every meaningful category. From pre-tax margin to net profit to passenger yield to total revenue to EBITAR and other categories, American is in line with and in some instances exceeding Delta's financial performance. We have compiled a financial performance comparison chart that drives home these points.
Management recently communicated to investors that "anticipated upside synergies are just beginning." The pilots at the new American Airlines are more productive than Delta pilots by a good margin (four more block hours flown per pilot per month in 2013, according to Form 41 data). That's impressive considering Delta pilots have been on preferential bidding for years. Our productivity will only increase as we make our transition to PBS.
If we are more productive than Delta pilots, we can look management squarely in the eye and demand Delta compensation, including profit-sharing.
We intend to make the case for our pilots flying E175s and other similar-sized aircraft. The pilot shortage at the regional carriers — driven by poverty-level wages for new hires — is real and materializing sooner than the industry anticipated. The carrier that abandons the regional experiment first and commits to a consistent quality product for passengers, with a reliable supply of highly qualified pilots, will win the day. We will strongly encourage management to restore American Airlines to the position of industry leader and innovator, particularly in the area of mainline pilots performing regional jet flying.
During the Conditional Labor Agreement and MOU negotiations, we willingly signed up for a JCBA process with an arbitration back-stop if an agreement cannot be reached. Management wanted a process with certainty. Agreeing to an arbitration back-stop was the price of admission to the merger path. But with the merger succeeding beyond the most optimistic expectations, an arbitrated solution would be a dismal failure for both sides. The opportunity to align our interests with management's and to share in the upside would be lost. Conversely, immediately closing our pay gap with Delta would be the single most tangible sign management could offer to remove any doubt that they are serious about creating a better relationship with the pilots of American Airlines.
We will share more details with you in the near future as negotiations continue and more substantive proposals are passed at the table.
The time to close the gap with Delta is now.
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