Originally Posted by Bzzt

I personally don't care about the money aspect at all, for me it's all about qol. Our qol under this bk contract is awful, and getting worse. Without those 170s and the routes they would provide it's going to continue to erode. There were 20 lines commutable from the west coast for August in DFW, I had to lose ~20 hours trading in to trips that had their first and last turns picked up by OT all stars.

Your entire argument is based off "if things go wrong I don't want to be pay capped", you will be. For this hiring wave to fall apart something catastrophic will have to happen, if something catastrophic happens we will declare bk and you'll be capped at 12/4.

It really astounds me that FOs are willing to pass up long term gains (by going to a major) over $1-2 a hour pay.

Buddies again, you wouldn't be pay capped you're grandfathered in. How many years do you have left? Is a 1% annual raise going to matter that much in your finances? If so I'm a bit worried about your ability to retire.

Originally Posted by fisherman

The AIP did not directly address QOL. If we want better QOL, there is a whole list of things we need (more days off, trip/duty rigs, etc).

As for pay, I don't support the continual erosion of our profession. In the Bankruptcy Contract, we gave the company the BARGAIN of us operating E175s/CRJ900s at CRJ700 pay rates temporarily. After a couple years, our contract states we will negotiate new rates for the E175s/CRJ900s.

If we had voted in the AIP, we would have permanently lowered the standard by agreeing to fly E175s for CRJ700 pay for at least ten years (which would most likely end up being permanent). This would have further eroded our profession.

I go to work to maximize my profit for myself. AAG wants to pay us less so they can maximize their profit, but we are under no obligation to give concessions just to be nice. We stood up for ourselves for once.

Originally Posted by Bzzt

You cannot artificially prop up the profession. The economy will dictate how much a pilot makes, all you did was ensure some other pilot is making the amount you weren't willing to take. In the end that pilot who was willing to suffer short term hardship will be your captain, either at the regional you're forced to apply at or the legacy / national you hope to work for.

Originally Posted by Bzzt

How many times do I have to tell you that pilots have nothing to do with whether or not regionals exist, we are not that important.

Adios: Your contract will not protect you from an economic downturn or catastrophe, sorry.

Originally Posted by tom11011

Since you are not moving on to a major airline by your own choice, what is it you want to have happen?

Originally Posted by Bzzt

As expected you totally missed the point of that analogy. Change the job to whatever you like, plumber, mechanic, electrician, the point remains the same.

Originally Posted by Bzzt

To find an aviation job where I can maximize my time off by being near the top of a seniority list. Failing that I am working on finding some stuff outside of aviation.

Originally Posted by Tsuda

I would say envoy has between 400 to 600 lifers.

Originally Posted by Counselor

What kind of schedules do these guys hold to keep them at Envoy? How long have they been at the airline?