Leave Envoy for Endeavor? Why not just go to PSA, Compass, TSA?

Haha! Do you think for a single second that people should go spend $250/hour to go build additional multi time so that in return they can be paid $24/hour if they don't have to?

It's obvious that a first year F/O is going to have a steep learning curve, but, everyone has to start somewhere - they passed their multi engine commercial checkride and went and built a couple of dozen hours - let the airline who's paying you poverty wages take the brunt for your lack of hours and allow you to build them on property with Cappy in the left seat.

Really during someone's multi add on, and MEI if they go that route, they do a bunch of simulated engine failures for the rating then don't practice any/much more. If they go build time somehow in a multi, unless they are instructing, they are then just flying with two fans spinning...hardly helping multi-engine skills, where the critical "skill" exists only in an engine failure. So are you saying flying a baron around for 200 additional hours, with both engines spinning, will make someone a better (ME) pilot, better prepared for an airline job? I don't buy it. Not when initial sims are 30-40 hours of primarily engine failures, plus recurrent doing the same thing. If you can't successfully respond to an engine failure at that point, you probably shouldn't (and won't be for long) in this profession.

So by your argument, the only way to become safe enough to fly a multi is to instruct in a multi for hundreds of hours. Where are the students going to come from where you can build that much multi time? Point is, you gotta start somewhere, and being an MEI waiting for enough multi students to get a decent amount of multi can be extremely difficult, if not impossible for many.

Clearly insurance underwriters are accepting the "risk" of having low multi time guys flying 76 seat jets. In some cases, insurance companies are taking the risk with fighter guys who have nothing but single engine/centerline thrust time transitioning to jets that hold substantially more than 76 people. Military trained or not, they haven't done anything that requires significant rudder input and severely degraded flight characteristics other than sims for V1 cuts/engine failures before they start flying pax around. Please tell me how unsafe that is.

You still haven't answered the question of "what's the magic number?" When did you become safe enough to operate a jet? How many hours do I need before I am ok to fly a jet? I'm going to quit and go rent a baron at $400 an hour until you think I'm safe enough. How did you build your multi time to bypass the "dangerous" pilot zone? You must be that guy who was born with 3000 hours and 1000 of multi, all at night in ice, flipping through the winter ops flip cards you made for your company while teaching your captain a few things you've picked up in your 10 years as an FO and keeping him in check.

Since you will probably tl;dr this, here's something you can chew on. Clearly the FAA, airlines, and insurance companies don't agree with you.

Retention bonus.

Going from envoy to PSA is a great way to get yourself on people's bad side. Also Endeavor currently offers a NY base. Hence the title.

Keep listening to those who are still saying that management is bluffing.:D

Goodluck!

Retention bonus means much more money, NYC base, but above all else, not working for Dougweiser and his BS airline segment.

It's obvious AAG is going to continue to play their umpteen tegionals against each other. Just because TSA, PSA, and Compass are the favorites now, doesn't mean they will be later. History has shown Doug wil pee on them too at some point. Why not go work for a major that at least has less regionals to whipsaw, and head for a regional who is just getting done being peed on?

My experience has been that you don't go where the action is hot because it is generally over before you get there. Go where it is about to be hot. A bit of a gamble yes but think about it: the musical chairs game chasing fast upgrades will be over in the next year. Where would you want to be then? My money would be on a wholly owned because that is where the majors will invest to bring aboard new hires, thus the most growth.

Too funny. Company sends out a msg asking the pilot group to share information about our hiring efforts in NY and within minutes someone is puking up the company line. To answer the previous question, upgrade is a long time right now. I'm at 7+ years and on reserve...as an FO. I left Eagle for this place in 2008 for a quick upgrade. Didn't really work out.

Notice how Envoy and Endeavor are paying retention/sign on bonuses. But not Compass, TSA, PSA.

Great example. The problem with some of these FO's is the ME ME attitude. I want to upgrade, I want the money, I want weekends off and I want it NOW. Go ahead, Jump ship for endeavour or whatever it is, that retention money is way good to pass regardless of starting all over again with no upgrade in sight.....

Good Luck!