and qol? not commuting halfway across the country?
what is that worth?

Facebiten,

Clearly, you haven't spent any time in tactical aviation. Or, analysed the risks as have the insurers.

GF

Exactly.. Even Worse than at Eagle isn't it?

Anyone that leaves here and goes to Endeavor with more than a couple years invested is a complete moron.

You are just jumping to another shrinking craphole with no upgrade ever. Very similar to what has happened here. There is a reason for the bonuses over there. Because their shrinkage and no movement is absolutely awful, just like ours. Who cares about the retention when you're gonna start over at the BOTTOM of another stagnant seniority list all over again and be stuck as an FO on RSV.. FOREVER.. again. Having a base in NY clearly isn't worth anything for a regional. That isn't guaranteed. Those come and go at the regionals with a few months notice. Obviously, anyone working at Eagle should know that by now.

I agree Eagle is horrendous right now (thanks to PSA and scumbag-airways) but starting over at Endeavor is no better. At least we have better movement #'s of people leaving at the top.

All These regional pilot poaching vultures are disgusting.

I can't wait to see everyone of these regionals implode in a few years. Including mine. I also really can't wait to see all the rats jumping ship to the "other" real d-bag operations for quick upgrades have that completely blow up in their face.

I don't care if people want to get out. After nearly a decade at this dump, so do I.. But at least wait to go somewhere decent that's an upwards move.. I have seen so many lateral moves over the last decade backfire on people that I've lost count. Maybe 10% have actually worked out..

People can do whatever they want. I just think Eagle>Endeavor is a stupid move for anyone who's not a new hire still. Eagle>PSA people may as well be blacklisted for life..

Yeah heaven forbid FOs want to do as well as their counterparts and get out of the low pay doldrums. Those selfish FOs!!

For NY FOs(quoting Cujo) Why they should lose short notice OT ability, lose time commuting across the country, lose more money needing a crashpad.... when they can start at Endeavor as a new hire making more money than they do here, stay based close to home with the ability to run in and cherry pick OT to make ends meet, and not need a crashpad.
If you live in the northeast, which a large percentage of NY FOs do, then commuting is just stupid.
It's not about current upgrade time at Endeavor. It's about future. Endeavors shrink is pretty much over while envoy still has to slice in half, again. If I were one of them, I'd want to be at place done shrinking, making more money than they ever would as an FO here.....oh and not commuting halfway across he country on the very carriers that took your flying.

Upgrade at Eagle is almost 8 years and forecast to be 10-11.
I am amazed to see the management damae control on his thread.

Far from management.. Lol. Just don't want to see the people I work with make a bad decision influenced by poachers with an agenda to go to some other dump with no future.

Eagles upgrade is less than 8 years. I upgraded in about 7. Still bad? Yup. Not arguing that. Our junior CA is mid 07 right now.. The senior FO's right now are getting screwed. Things will take a little while to shake out and get that moving again. Can't really predict it. What are the Endeavor "downgrades" seniority right now? I honestly don't know anymore. Have they been moved back to the left seat yet??

I love how people just make up mythical Eagle upgrade forecasts. Who came up with that? You? Lol. There is no official projection on anything here right now and impossible to say for someone junior here. It's still completely up in the air what will happen here. We don't know how many 170's we will end up with. We don't know if all those aircraft projected to leave will actually do so in a short period of time. We don't know how fast that transfers will "actually" happen. They are already delayed on the CRJ transfers from the projected 3 down to about 1.5- 2 per month due to de-conformity taking a couple weeks each by MX and that could easily back up even more since it hasn't really even cranked up yet. (I just recently heard this from the fleet manager.) We don't know if we will get a retention bonus as well. It may be equal to or greater than Endeavors. It's being discussed. I would guess "possibly" but probably not until they get us to the size they want.. Who really knows? Definitely not the line pilots..

We don't know exactly what movement will be like with the flow here. It may continue on as projected or it could slow down again. Right now we are told we are losing 2 months of flow this year at 20/mo due to un-deferrals.. then it will increase to 30/mo around NOV with the first 170 on property. If that # keeps true we should flow approximately 180 more this year, and will flow 360/yr in 2016 and beyond.. plus outside hiring attrition and retirements of lifers creeping up on 65. Many of our Mid-junior CA's are also bailing for LCC's and majors now and that is increasing due to all the bad news here, not decreasing. We have a lot of highly qualified people here with tons of hours due to our longevity issues. Attrition to outside carriers from here when hiring really picks up will be sky-high.

As bad as things are here we still will have the highest attrition of CA's leaving per month in the industry, By far.. (*So long as AA is hiring). Look at the retirement #'s and decide for yourself if they will be hiring and flowing full classes over the next 5 years. I'd guess thats a yes.. There certainly could be some slow downs or hiccups over the next few years, But barring a major catastrophe we will still flow a LOT of people out of here rapidly. What other regional will be losing 360+ CA's per year? Likely over 400+ with outside attrition. A 10 year + upgrade in that case is history..

To be fair.. I can't say what Endeavor upgrades will be 5 years from now either. But they will be no better than ours without drastic changes to the plan over there. Or we could just Comair tomorrow as well. Who knows..

What is the commitment for that signin/ retention bonus at endeavor?

For what it's worth, the latest Endeavor Realignment has 35 upgrades.

If you have 25 hours of multi there is no way you should be flying a 76 seat jetttttttt. Unfortunately, like most regulation in aviation any changes will be written in blood. Sooner or later, especially combined with a minimum time upgrade CA, there will be a smoking hole. The rest of us will have to deal with the over regulation that is sure to follow.

Nothing. Nada. Zilch.