Envoy to get 100% flow to AA.
06-17-2015, 02:39 PM
#52
Pilot
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 149
[/QUOTE] If I were an entry-level prospective pilot, I'd make my choice of a regional as one based more on tangible factors then hypothetical ones and if I were already at a given regional (at least one that flies RJ's for a legacy), I'd stay put and let the industry evolve more to get a better handle of what is a good next move, if any.[/QUOTE]
Which airlines might those be? They're all struggling right now in some form.
Which airlines might those be? They're all struggling right now in some form.
06-17-2015, 02:51 PM
#54
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by sublime259
I guess I should add that eaglefly has been blocked for a few days now due to his incessant trolling and the mods refusal to do anything about it.
This is not true. I can assure all here, I'm quite regular and ensure that by getting the necessary amount of fiber and staying hydrated.
I do understand though that one of your hopeful strategies is to get me "silenced" as then you can continue your misrepresentations and sales pitches unimpeded as evidenced by your continued misapplication of "trolling" and now attacking the mods for not assisting you. Look, we definitely disagree and I have never made a post demanding you or any of your other cadre be silenced by others or silencing yourself. I do reserve the right for rebuttal to your claims though and isn't that what this forum is for ? If you read any number of threads, there is PLENTY of conflict and disagreement on various subjects and this subject is no different.
In fact, if anyone is to be banned, it should be RJ pilot who is STILL attempting to out me just again this afternoon on the other Envoy thread (what are we up to now over the last year or so, 30 or more times ?) or those of you who engage in name-calling as sport.
06-17-2015, 03:00 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by eaglefly
...the problem with your "fact" is that the most apt phrase in your post above is "right now". It seems to be a phrase you have difficulty including in the context of your sales pitches. For that to hold true in the future, AAG MUST commit to Envoy and Envoy MUST demonstrate it can hire AND RETAIN enough pilots to make that work.
So far, those components don't exist and THAT is FACT. Like your fellow sales associate said, "the world changes" and thus what happens "right now" may not be able to happen in the future. 6 years is a LIFETIME in this business in regards to changing worlds and equating what is happening at Envoy right now to the remainder of the arbitrational awarded "824" pilots is NO GUARANTEE of ANYTHING for those subject to a simple contractual agreement like the Protected Pilots Agreement (PPA) months or years down the road. Mix that in conjunction that Envoy will be morphing drastically into a different feed provider due to significant contraction and you can't even guarantee Envoy will exist in 6 years in present form, let alone smoothly flowing a new-hire of today.
So far, those components don't exist and THAT is FACT. Like your fellow sales associate said, "the world changes" and thus what happens "right now" may not be able to happen in the future. 6 years is a LIFETIME in this business in regards to changing worlds and equating what is happening at Envoy right now to the remainder of the arbitrational awarded "824" pilots is NO GUARANTEE of ANYTHING for those subject to a simple contractual agreement like the Protected Pilots Agreement (PPA) months or years down the road. Mix that in conjunction that Envoy will be morphing drastically into a different feed provider due to significant contraction and you can't even guarantee Envoy will exist in 6 years in present form, let alone smoothly flowing a new-hire of today.
Nobody can predict the future in this industry, but right now we know the flow IS moving pilots every month + 4-5 or so going to Legacy carriers via direct hire per month. Then all other LCC/cargo/foreign/corporate attrition on top of that every month. We have the highest attrition in the industry. Yes some is lateral , mostly in the beginning of this year, but most now isn't. No signs it is stopping anytime soon either, flow could always slow temporarily due to any number of reasons (which will slow others getting hired from outside carriers as well), but it's not going to stop without a major incident or disaster. It's arbitrated awards, arbitrated agreements and contractual. Retirements are coming.. It is inevitable. Even if they did a worse case scenario and delay it again to age 67 or some crap. (Which would also slow everyone else at other carriers).
So again.. How many other regionals have as many pilots per month going to a "LEGACY" carrier as Eagle does (with our Flow + outside Legacy attrition)??
Answer = 0
We are putting more pilots at Legacy carriers than anyone else right now and for the forseeable future. Vast majority being AA.
You can't argue with that. It's still a fact.
06-17-2015, 03:10 PM
#56
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by RyanP
The fact remains.. And I could even say over the past 5 years with confidence Eagle has supplied more LEGACY pilots than any other Regional. I don't know the exact number outside of the flow, nobody does.. but approximately 550-600 or so is a safe # to a Legacy carrier over the last 5 years. Nobody else can claim that. Not even close. Most of it being over the last 2 years.
Nobody can predict the future in this industry, but right now we know the flow IS moving pilots every month + 4-5 or so going to Legacy carriers via direct hire per month. Then all other LCC/cargo/foreign/corporate attrition on top of that every month. We have the highest attrition in the industry. Yes some is lateral , mostly in the beginning of this year, but most now isn't. No signs it is stopping anytime soon either, flow could always slow temporarily due to any number of reasons (which will slow others getting hired from outside carriers as well), but it's not going to stop without a major incident or disaster. It's arbitrated awards, arbitrated agreements and contractual.
So again.. How many other regionals have as many pilots per month going to a "LEGACY" carrier as Eagle does (with our Flow + outside Legacy attrition)??
Answer = 0
We are putting more pilots at Legacy carriers than anyone else right now. Vast majority being AA.
You can't argue with that. It's still a fact.
Nobody can predict the future in this industry, but right now we know the flow IS moving pilots every month + 4-5 or so going to Legacy carriers via direct hire per month. Then all other LCC/cargo/foreign/corporate attrition on top of that every month. We have the highest attrition in the industry. Yes some is lateral , mostly in the beginning of this year, but most now isn't. No signs it is stopping anytime soon either, flow could always slow temporarily due to any number of reasons (which will slow others getting hired from outside carriers as well), but it's not going to stop without a major incident or disaster. It's arbitrated awards, arbitrated agreements and contractual.
So again.. How many other regionals have as many pilots per month going to a "LEGACY" carrier as Eagle does (with our Flow + outside Legacy attrition)??
Answer = 0
We are putting more pilots at Legacy carriers than anyone else right now. Vast majority being AA.
You can't argue with that. It's still a fact.
No one can guarantee that, although some appear to be trying. I suppose we'll have to watch the show over the next 6-12 months and see how Envoy and its upgrade/flow projections morph. That's my advice to those not at Envoy and those who are and more junior wont likely pass up any offers to other legacies, LCC's or various other better jobs that pay $$$ and offer tangible things instead of hypotheticals. Hey, the 824 are likely in good shape (at least most of them and that includes Cujo and some of the other MEC guys), but perhaps that's all that matters to them. Personally, that's what I think.
As for you or those subject to the PPA ?
Well,..............good luck !
....and I mean that. I hope it works out for you.
06-17-2015, 04:01 PM
#57
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Which airlines might those be? They're all struggling right now in some form.
06-17-2015, 06:08 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 674
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Will "today" transfer to those NOT in the "824", including most junior Envoy pilots and those not yet hired ?
No one can guarantee that, although some appear to be trying. I suppose we'll have to watch the show over the next 6-12 months and see how Envoy and its upgrade/flow projections morph. That's my advice to those not at Envoy and those who are and more junior wont likely pass up any offers to other legacies, LCC's or various other better jobs that pay $$$ and offer tangible things instead of hypotheticals. Hey, the 824 are likely in good shape (at least most of them and that includes Cujo and some of the other MEC guys), but perhaps that's all that matters to them. Personally, that's what I think.
As for you or those subject to the PPA ?
Well,..............good luck !
....and I mean that. I hope it works out for you.
No one can guarantee that, although some appear to be trying. I suppose we'll have to watch the show over the next 6-12 months and see how Envoy and its upgrade/flow projections morph. That's my advice to those not at Envoy and those who are and more junior wont likely pass up any offers to other legacies, LCC's or various other better jobs that pay $$$ and offer tangible things instead of hypotheticals. Hey, the 824 are likely in good shape (at least most of them and that includes Cujo and some of the other MEC guys), but perhaps that's all that matters to them. Personally, that's what I think.
As for you or those subject to the PPA ?
Well,..............good luck !
....and I mean that. I hope it works out for you.
06-17-2015, 06:22 PM
#59
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by LeadFoot
The flow through contract sounds great, but why is Envoy struggling to attract more pilots than other regional airlines? Yes, there's a pilot shortage, but other regional airlines are filling their new hire classes while Envoy gets less than 30 a month. Also, why is Envoy closing bases everywhere (down to only DFW and ORD)? For the airline to be more appealing to potential new hires it has to prove that it can keep its domiciles open and reassure everyone that it won't get any worse. Not being negative here, just honestly curious.
06-17-2015, 06:27 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Skyvector
You are making a HUGE mistake listening to anything eaglefly says. If you ever want a real, straight answer to your question let me know.
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