Latest Envoy Blast
09-05-2015 | 02:39 PM
#31
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Hear ye, hear ye.............come one, come all...........the Good ship Envoy awaits and you DON'T want to be one who misses its glorious cruise to utopia !!!!!!
09-05-2015 | 02:43 PM
#32
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
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Does this math work for you and if not, can you trust this source ?
Caveat Emptor.
09-05-2015 | 02:49 PM
#33
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Currently at 4 years but past and present status is always a poor indicator in a changing environment. When I was hired in 2004, guys hired just 2 month before me spent less than 3 months on reserve and I spent just over two years. This was due to a huge hiring wave that I just happen to get in on the back side of. envoy has spent the last 4 years shrinking. I believe the union told us that we have about 50% of the flying we did before. We have sub 50 hrs lines this month with one reserve pilot for every two line holders. envoy has been taking block hours back from RAH and Mesa due to their inability to staff and poor performance. Expect the reserve time to drop drastically in the next 12 months.
envoy is in transition. Parker wanted us to shrink but since we are the only carrier in a position to handle more flying and afford to flow, he is adjusting his strategy to the market. We have a huge glut of pilots, partly for the training bubble of the E175, partly in preparation of the flow, and partly due to a plan hatched two years ago to shrink us. That plan has changed. My point is, although there are 4 year reserve FO today, what you will find 6 months from now will be a completely different story. Many, including myself scoffed at R Wilson's claim of a 2.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow. We now see his plan, how he hopes to accomplish this. With each flowthrough class, the time to flow is reduced. I have only seen L-Eagle upgrade close to 200 captains in a year one other time in 15 years. If they upgrade 220 pilots next year, that will be the largest amount of movement for over a decade. I also believe that their announcement of 300 flows and 220 upgrades are on the conservative end of the projections. Its likely those numbers may end up higher. No one, except eaglefly, can tell you with certainty whether their plan will work out. Choosing what regional to go to is always a risk. Do you think some of the pilots hired at RAH six months ago are regretting their decision? Will Mesa be in this situation next year? Its always a gamble but Parker has publically stated that the flow is his solution to staffing his regional flying. He is vested in it to make it work. (Mostly because he doesn't want to raise the pay, but I think before its all over, he will have to do this as well) As the supply of regional pilots becomes tighter, do you think he will invest his resources in the wholly owned carriers or to a contract carrier? Personally, I think we are going to see more carriers play out what is going on at RAH now. Its only going to get worse.
envoy is in transition. Parker wanted us to shrink but since we are the only carrier in a position to handle more flying and afford to flow, he is adjusting his strategy to the market. We have a huge glut of pilots, partly for the training bubble of the E175, partly in preparation of the flow, and partly due to a plan hatched two years ago to shrink us. That plan has changed. My point is, although there are 4 year reserve FO today, what you will find 6 months from now will be a completely different story. Many, including myself scoffed at R Wilson's claim of a 2.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow. We now see his plan, how he hopes to accomplish this. With each flowthrough class, the time to flow is reduced. I have only seen L-Eagle upgrade close to 200 captains in a year one other time in 15 years. If they upgrade 220 pilots next year, that will be the largest amount of movement for over a decade. I also believe that their announcement of 300 flows and 220 upgrades are on the conservative end of the projections. Its likely those numbers may end up higher. No one, except eaglefly, can tell you with certainty whether their plan will work out. Choosing what regional to go to is always a risk. Do you think some of the pilots hired at RAH six months ago are regretting their decision? Will Mesa be in this situation next year? Its always a gamble but Parker has publically stated that the flow is his solution to staffing his regional flying. He is vested in it to make it work. (Mostly because he doesn't want to raise the pay, but I think before its all over, he will have to do this as well) As the supply of regional pilots becomes tighter, do you think he will invest his resources in the wholly owned carriers or to a contract carrier? Personally, I think we are going to see more carriers play out what is going on at RAH now. Its only going to get worse.
As far as the commute goes. BNA to ORD has a lot of commuters but many flights. Not sure about DFW. MEM to ORD or DFW doesn't have the frequency but much fewer commuters. Nice thing about MEM though, you always have FedEx. Never JS on them myself, but I hear its pretty nice.
09-05-2015 | 02:52 PM
#34
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
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How long do you guys think this wave will last? I supposed to be getting to ATP mins next year and was thinking of doing the pipeline program. I hear as a pipeline instructor you get seniority over your class mates. I was thinking since Envoy is getting the 175 and I would like to fly that aircraft it would be beneficial when it comes down to choosing airframes. I do also like the travel benefits on AA and it will make it easier for my wife and me to visit family.
09-05-2015 | 02:59 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 259
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09-05-2015 | 03:15 PM
#36
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
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IMO, the guys SELLING this now all have self-serving motives. They don't give a rats patoot about any newbie, they want Envoy to be as robust as possible just long enough to get their own tickets punched to AA, that's all.
A lot of Envoy Pinocchio's running around there (and here) these days.
Caveat Emptor.
09-05-2015 | 05:05 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 674
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It appears the last of the 824 won't flow until sometime in 2017. A lot of variables there. If you get hired at Envoy next year, expecting a 6 year ride to AA as per recent claims isn't realistic. If AAG consolidates some or all of its wholly-owned's, it gets worse and you'll have thousands of pilots ahead of you for AA and combined with almost certainly a slower monthly metric, that's a long wait.
IMO, the guys SELLING this now all have self-serving motives. They don't give a rats patoot about any newbie, they want Envoy to be as robust as possible just long enough to get their own tickets punched to AA, that's all.
A lot of Envoy Pinocchio's running around there (and here) these days.
Caveat Emptor.
IMO, the guys SELLING this now all have self-serving motives. They don't give a rats patoot about any newbie, they want Envoy to be as robust as possible just long enough to get their own tickets punched to AA, that's all.
A lot of Envoy Pinocchio's running around there (and here) these days.
Caveat Emptor.
09-05-2015 | 06:43 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 294
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Thanks for the replies! How would you compare to PSA? I have looked at them because of the ease of commute to their bases, but also lose an hour because of the time change. Not sure that would play a huge part in it, but maybe trying to commute same day it might help.
Also, how are most lines built? 4 day trips and 3 off or so? I know PSA has the SAP, is there any schedule swapping available at Envoy? Thanks again
Also, how are most lines built? 4 day trips and 3 off or so? I know PSA has the SAP, is there any schedule swapping available at Envoy? Thanks again
However, envoy's CURRENT flow is light years ahead of PSA's Selective Interview Program, as it stands today. That's not to say that it'll stay that way. I doubt envoy's flow will go away, as this is the basket that the company has put all of its recruitment eggs into. PSA 'might' get a true flow some day, but probably at the expense of their super trip trade program. But until they have serious recruitment and retention problems, AAG probably won't do it.
As far as the commute goes, MEM or BNA to DFW or ORD shouldn't be too bad. There's a lot of commuters in those cities, but they go everywhere that you would have to commute to PSA bases too, not just ORD & DFW. There's plenty of frequency, and most of those flights are in envoy, so as an envoy pilot, you will have JS priority. (IIRC, ORD-BNA is envoy, DFW to BNA is AA mainline and envoy in combination, MEM-ORD is envoy, and MEM-DFW is AA mainline and envoy combination). As a PSA pilot, you might be in decent shape commuting to CLT, but TYS would be a 2 leg commute, and I'm not sure about DAY, but I think that would be a 2 legged too. Not sure what other bases PSA is supposed to open, but I'm hearing PHL. Check Passrider Interline Travel Information ? Interline Travel and Pass Travel Information for commutability between any two cities.
You have my email address if you have any questions.
09-05-2015 | 07:06 PM
#39
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 749
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So no, to me it wouldn't appear to be "apples and oranges".
09-05-2015 | 07:15 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
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Which is true of every regional out there. RAH is experiencing that now. Not enough new hires has created a bad outlook which has perpetuated less new hires. Personally, I think Republic is just the first and there will be more. When that happens, which regionals do you think Parker will put his resources toward? Go to Compass where you may stagnate if they cannot hire more people or go to envoy where they flow of the top, guaranteed each month. It's a gamble either way but which is more likely? Good Luck, I guess?
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