But on EL, Envoy pilots are saying you're getting about half the new-hires you need. You're even on there talking about how when they fail and ostensibly come running to your union leadership, they can't blame you and so that's why you're not "torpedoing every thing they do" (in fact you're doing the opposite).

Okay, just what are last months "numbers" (they're saying 12, which is eons from 33 and galaxies from the more realistic # of 40 each and every month) ? How many pilots did they hire at the ORD recruitment which was supposedly a "huge success" ? Is it true AAG is not ponying up another cent to Envoy pilots on the belief that the flow alone will do get what they need in the door here ? Is it true **** threw up his hands in an "I dunno" when asked what the plan is if they can't get 33/month in the door there ?

Come on Mason, give the lads the real info here. Enquiring minds want to know facts, not hypotheticals, hopes and projections.

last month 28, this month 12

400 is frontloading pilots while they can. They say they currently only need 15 a month average for their plan to work as Ric advertised it. If he doesn't know where the rest will come from, that's GOOD... more leverage for us to push for more improvements.

15/month and "frontloading" ? Okay, that's 180 next year, meaning 220 this year and if you include the 40 so far, that's another 180 over the 3 month period through the remainder of this year. Plus, that means they think only perhaps 6 pilots or so to leave Envoy each month for other carriers over that period. Those numbers don't add up there as new-hires dropped by half from August to September and any way you slice that cake over the next 15 months, their claimed goal appears unattainable considering AAG will not pump any more money into Envoy for long-term pilot recruitment.

Sounds like Envoy is indeed stumbling and indicative of simply being a convenient relief valve for the temporary backfiring of their ultimate plan. I understand the August number may have been inflated due to several CFI schools having pilots completing summer instructing tours and college courses only becoming available for Envoy at that point. As for improvements ?

Well, you've made multiple proposals that have for the most part been shot down by AAG already. What makes you think anything will be different once the carriers Envoy is currently assisting while THEY grow don't need Envoy assistance any longer and AAG is over that hump a year from now ?

Indeed, Envoy is stumbling along. However, its better than being kicked down hill which is what we have been doing the past 3 years.

And indeed, we serve as a filler airline ("relief" as you said) when others fail. We cover RAH flying in MIA and recently more so in ORD (several 9300 flights covering 4xxx flights), we covered Air Whiskey is DCA while they covered PSA, and we cover all the time XJT in DFW.

You are absolutely right that if THIS months hiring number is reflective of future hiring months, we will be short on the numbers required to make management's plan work - according to them.

However, can you tell me how many will be hired next month?

Just tell us, we'll believe you.

We believe you!

Yup. Just like everyone else. If it increases my take home pay/QOL and takes care of my family without harming the long term viability of this company, I'm all for it. I couldn't care less about the industry. If you claim your concern/loyalty is not to yourself/family, you're lying.

You fit in over there.

That's great, I just know when you get something you usually have to give something up. SAP is what I heard.

Let me know when you're ready to pay everyone's bills and make up for lost career progression while they're standing strong for you and your company. I doubt you will or stay strong for anyone but yourself. Everyone is big talk, because it's easy, until the rubber meets the runway.

So what's good for the industry isn't good for yourself or your family. Got it.

I haven't heard any rumors of them getting rid of the SAP. Not that it would matter because the company has essentially made it unusable as of late anyway. But I still wouldn't give it up in its broken state for anything.

I think the company wants relief on language in our contract dealing with DECs and they want to do 5 day IOE trips instead of 4 for efficiency. Like I said though, I don't think we should be giving ANYTHING up. But alas, I can't vote. So there it is.