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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)
-   -   Envoy to American Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/90914-envoy-american-airlines.html)

1stCivDivPilot 09-29-2015 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by chignutsak (Post 1982068)
So what's good for the industry isn't good for yourself or your family. Got it.
As soon as you figure out how to get one contract and one pilot list, unity is a pipe dream. How many of you have "mainline" contracts? Make whatever excuse you want, if you don't have one you caved for your own self interest.

Ex lurker 09-29-2015 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1982081)
I haven't heard any rumors of them getting rid of the SAP. Not that it would matter because the company has essentially made it unusable as of late anyway. But I still wouldn't give it up in its broken state for anything.

I think the company wants relief on language in our contract dealing with DECs and they want to do 5 day IOE trips instead of 4 for efficiency. Like I said though, I don't think we should be giving ANYTHING up. But alas, I can't vote. So there it is.
I can't help but notice that you have become quite the expert in your less than one year of 121 time. But yes, after SAP became mysteriously " broken" I doubt the company will need to use it for a bargaining chip again. I do remember clearly when everyone on this thread was expounding its virtues. Do you think it helped in recruitment?

(Edit: I meant the other PSA thread)

chrisreedrules 09-29-2015 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ex lurker (Post 1982134)
I can't help but notice that you have become quite the expert in your less than one year of 121 time. But yes, after SAP became mysteriously " broken" I doubt the company will need to use it for a bargaining chip again. I do remember clearly when everyone on this thread was expounding its virtues. Do you think it helped in recruitment?

(Edit: I meant the other PSA thread)
It helped to convince me to go to PSA, so I'd say it was certainly a factor for at least some. And I am far from an expert, I would say rather I try to stay aware of what's happening at my airline (and others to some extent).

billyho 09-30-2015 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1982081)
I haven't heard any rumors of them getting rid of the SAP. Not that it would matter because the company has essentially made it unusable as of late anyway. But I still wouldn't give it up in its broken state for anything.

I think the company wants relief on language in our contract dealing with DECs and they want to do 5 day IOE trips instead of 4 for efficiency. Like I said though, I don't think we should be giving ANYTHING up. But alas, I can't vote. So there it is.
Well you guys have more leverage then you used to that's for sure. I see them coming up with some kind of CEL list in the future also between Envoy, PSA and PDT. Right now with the flow many PDT FO's will go to American before a ton of Junior Captains at PSA.

RyanP 09-30-2015 05:35 AM
Originally Posted by 1stCivDivPilot (Post 1981747)
Dumb question since the details haven't been released. It doesn't matter anyway, you'll find a reason to hate it/PSA.
We don't need any more reasons to hate PSA.. 2013 was plenty enough.

1stCivDivPilot 09-30-2015 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 1982445)
We don't need any more reasons to hate PSA.. 2013 was plenty enough.
Because they have been the only airline to pass a contract that "undercut" another airline, sure. Ask Comair pilots about that. I guess if it was before your time it never happened and the uncomfortable truth can be swept under the rug. BTW, how's that mainline contract you've got?

RyanP 09-30-2015 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by 1stCivDivPilot (Post 1982454)
Because they have been the only airline to pass a contract that "undercut" another airline, sure. Ask Comair pilots about that. I guess if it was before your time it never happened and the uncomfortable truth can be swept under the rug. BTW, how's that mainline contract you've got?
No its not before my time. I have been flying since the 90's.

We would all have better contracts right now if it wasn't for the places like PSA, Mesa and Gojets and the pilots willing to go there to undercut and get ahead at the expense of others. Eagle tried to STW and stand up for what was right in a time of record profits to just have their legs chopped out from under them by greedy upgrade hungry backstabbbers. If everyone said no collectively (which we tried to do with the ALPA FFD meetings) this BS would stop.

1stCivDivPilot 09-30-2015 07:38 AM
Originally Posted by RyanP (Post 1982521)
No its not before my time. I have been flying since the 90's.

We would all have better contracts right now if it wasn't for the places like PSA, Mesa and Gojets and the pilots willing to go there to undercut and get ahead at the expense of others. Eagle tried to STW and stand up for what was right in a time of record profits to just have their legs chopped out from under them by greedy upgrade hungry backstabbbers. If everyone said no collectively (which we tried to do with the ALPA FFD meetings) this BS would stop.
So Eagle never undercut Comair? Didn't Envoy just vote in a contract? Was it a mainline level contract? Justify it however you want. Everyone does what's best for them and their company when it comes down to the vote.

billyho 09-30-2015 08:13 AM
Originally Posted by 1stCivDivPilot (Post 1982454)
Because they have been the only airline to pass a contract that "undercut" another airline, sure. Ask Comair pilots about that. I guess if it was before your time it never happened and the uncomfortable truth can be swept under the rug. BTW, how's that mainline contract you've got?
Lol! Dude you don't have a clue!

1stCivDivPilot 09-30-2015 08:29 AM
Originally Posted by billyho (Post 1982574)
Lol! Dude you don't have a clue!
Strong rebuttal. You convinced me.


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