Hahahaha. Today Dic has announced that, if you joined today, you would upgrade in 3 years, and flow in 5.5 years. What happened to the last prediction. What are the group of 2.5 and 5 now, 5 and 8.5. He can't stop the BS. How does he even put out these emails.

No one has for a while. Now will you please answer eaglepilot84!!!!

What is vacation accrual by year?

First year is prorated depending on DOH.

2 weeks until 7 years of service then you get 3.

I forgot the threshold for 4 weeks.

Ha! Good luck with that. He got fired from envoy and will continue to hold a grudge no matter how much you ask him to be honest. He won't respond to PM's and he won't respond on here.

Why? We've made any case we've needed to. We've acknowledged where envoy falls short, where it sucks and that it needs some serious improvement in our opinion. We've also acknowledged where things could go right.


The difference is that the reasonable people here don't have to constantly spew noise about it one way or the other. We try to make a case and move on. The rest gets left to the trolls.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Why would you need a response with that being the case.

Are new hires able to get the e175 ord ?

It seems likely, soon enough.

He speaks!!!

What happened to eaglelounge?

Reformatted. Was renamed more appropriately Envoy Lounge, but that was too traumatic for many of the pilots there in deep denial still convincing themselves they fly for American Eagle Airlines. Thankfully, it was changed back to Eaglelounge or Envoy would have lost a lot of pilots to complete and total emotional crack-ups further stressing their already deficient staffing.

I guess existing in that environment requires fantasy and denial simply to survive. :cool:

The reformatting is bad, it is not user friendly and hard to look at and navigate. It looks so second rate now. Hope they know if they don't change it they are going to lose a lot of subscribers. I like using it, but not it is to much work just to read what is new and to navigate to the most recent post. Not worth my time and money anymore. Thanks Skytow for forcing me out of the forum world, much appreciated.

Dude get a life. Your entire perception of envoy comes from a website full of pilots who will beotch about anything and everything. Eaglelounge/Envoylounge whatever they want to call it today, is an extremely poor representation of the 1800'ish pilots. Maybe you would know that if you still worked here. I would think you should since you claim to have spent nearly two decades here.

Well, I have to agree with you on that. Reminds me of Coca-Cola changing a recipe that wasn't broken. It's human nature to resist sudden change as well.

Partially true, you ironically are a perfect example of your point. The only difference being the things you beotch about, that being anyone who upsets your warped view of Envoy reality.

Actually, I find it quite accurate when compared to the present Envoy pilots I talk to in passing and those that have recently left. I DO understand that doesn't serve your interests well though, dude.

My warped view of envoy? I have as clear a view as any. Especially as a reserve Captain. With all due respect I would take my "warped" view and opinions over yours any day.

So you're getting all your info second and third hand from current (most likely lifer) pilots and eagle lounge?! Wow you're such a great and reliable source!!

Hate to break it to you, but I have no agenda. When I leave this place in about 2 years I don't plan on looking back at all. While I'm here, however, I will defend the truth about what it's like over here to keep liars such as yourself from spouting off trash. You're the self proclaimed "scope 2020" salesman so it makes sense that your "interests" lie in keeping potential new-hires away from envoy by spewing out lies. Keepin' it classy as alway!

It certainly calls into question the decision making ability of future and current Envoy Captains who are so blind to the situation they are in.

Hopefully, this ability to see through rose colored glasses doesn't extend to the cockpit where an Envoy crew who believes that the flow after the 824 is "rock solid" doesn't see through the same rose colored glasses when a true emergency arises.

Ahhhh Hahahaha did you (as an FO who has never been Captain and who "supposedly" went to an airline with one of the worst safety reputations in the country) just question my decision making skills as a Captain because I look at my career as a marathon and not a sprint? Or question them because I choose to highlight both the pluses and minuses of envoy (as a current employee) rather then bash it like our former employees do? That's rich. Real rich. Try again.

Your version of the truth doesn't jibe with almost all of the Envoy pilots I talk to. Virtually all of them are focused on the exit door. AFAIC, you post here a dozen times a day BECAUSE you want as many new-hires to come to Envoy regardless of how most feel about it there because you are concerned with ensuring your OWN exit ASAP, period.

Truth and altruism are nowhere to be found. Before you discharge more gas here claiming X and Y, spare yourself the trouble as nothing you say will change my opinion and my old "Scope salesman" moniker has nothing to do with Envoy and I explained that in the past. It's related to my present "Independent Contractor" badge, both of which are obviously WAY over your head.

Some aren't blind at all. They know the situation and that is the foundation of building the base of the pyramid for without that, they are terrified they'll never get skimmed off its point by AA. It's simply self-interest via the concept of "do unto others and then split".

Especially those who see themselves running a marathon. ;)

Virtually none of these guys truly give a hoot about Envoy............not really. Caring about oneself and a Envoy's future are two separate concepts, but some muddy that up because it serves their interim goals while at Envoy.

Oh wow now you're an "independent contractor"?! You really are a jack of all trades, master of none.

I've never denied that I'm waiting and looking forward to the exit. That's why I'm here! There is only a small percentage of pilots who are making this place home (likely many of your former brethren and even more likely the same ones who you get all your inside info from).

I'm sorry my version doesn't jibe with "almost all of the Envoy pilots" you talk to. Do you get how rediculous that sounds from the outside looking in? I've never given anything less then an unbiased opinion of envoy, for better or worse. I'll tell you the good parts and I'll tell you the bad parts. I'll tell you my thoughts on the flow and I'll also tell you it's the reason I'm still here now and why I won't be in roughly 2 years. I'll tell you if you're looking at your career as a marathon and want to end up at AA, this is a good place to start. Especially if you live near ORD or DFW. Is everything rock solid and guaranteed to work as advertised? ABSOLUTLY NOT. I've never claimed that and never will. But it's a pretty damn good card to have in your pocket, especially when you're just starting out your career.

So yes, I would love new-hires to come here in even greater quantities then currently are. From what I understand, we're trending higher in new-hire numbers but still not where we need to be. From speaking with people who are a lot more in the know then I am (both management and union) this will NOT affect our flow numbers. I beleive it won't, based on the current business plan of envoy. Whether or not others do too is up to them, I'm just giving the opinion of someone who actually works here, myself.

As for "posting a dozen times a day" I'm not even going to dignify myself with a response to that one, especially coming from you, eaglefly! I guess some perpetual liars just never know when to stop.

So do you think that AAG would just flow it's WOs to the point where their feed is disrupted and it affects their profits? Don't be a fool. I work for a WO and even I know that unless we can all get new hires in the door, there will ultimately be no flow. If you have a year (maybe two?) to flow, sure stick around. If not, you're a fool to stay for it and count on it.

I spared myself the futility of even reading this, expect for the end in that I don't see the room for you to "dignify" yourself with further response and this is the discharged gas I was referring to. I don't think even you could hold much more then what has already been belched forth into the cyber atmosphere.

Please do YOURSELF a favor and take a break from more pointless hysterics. :rolleyes:

What you're speaking of is both an extreme and unlikely scenario. Yes they will give back block hours in order to preserve the flow. They already are. Aren't you at PSA? PSA isn't exactly known for their robust flow so I would probably be looking elsewhere if I were there too. Now, as for anyone within a year, maybe two, being a fool to stay?! Well...I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that in so many ways! Unless it's Delta, United, FedEx, southwest, or UPS then you're a fool to leave. But like I said, some people see their career as a sprint and not a marathon. To each their own.

Good talk and even better rebuttal!!!

Thank you. :)

Most DO want to get pilots in the door and that goes for all the WO's. What sets Envoy apart is the near drooling desperation seen on this forum by some who appear in a state of panic. They've taken it upon themselves to bring them in the door themselves embellishing much and attempt to suppress even more. This forum has little impact on the fact that considering all the mud thrown at the wall thus far, little of it is sticking in the form of new-hires. Soon something more drastic will be done and I see consolidation, but that likely means a slower, more methodical flow and in the case of Envoy pilots, more patience as their turns (after the 824) will likely be drawn out.

Since AAG WILL NOT flow it's regionals out of business, there really is no other option but to kick the can and a slower flow is one can that can still be kicked.

Everyone I talked to about coming here told me it's an ok place to be but if they had a choice they would go else where . Current 4 year guys I know are willing to jump ship and start somewhere else and upgrade faster . I just feel that the company if they really respected their pilot group would do endeavor style bonuses for everyone on property and offer the e175 for current pilots FIRST and then new hires .

Says the guy with 8250 post...

BTW I'm still waiting your answer about the 2013 vote...

Endevour style bonus is gone in 2018, then they will be as cheap as us. They are a ticking bomb, once is gone is gone. Their MEC hasn't being able to lock that bonus in the contract.

I think they'd be a fool to stop their bonus. Only way there wouldn't be one is if literally there were no more pilots to be had for any amount of money or if they all got seniority numbers and stapled to delta.

Chris, you actually get it here. Envoy is not going to flow themselves out of business just to honor the contract. After the last 824 flows over, you will see a significant readjustment of the Envoy flow downward to a more palatable number. Say 8 to 10 per month.

The union is likely to play ball as they would rather have SOME flow than none at all while the company goes against the agreement and YEARS are spent duking it out before reaching a last minute decision. See LTFO grievance. STILL going on from 2012 and STILL not a complete resolution And a lousy settlement to boot.

Right now, Envoy is a dumpster fire. A dumpster fire that is a ticking time bomb regarding staffing.

Does your crystal ball tell you the lotto numbers too? You're the very last person on this forum anyone should be taking advise from!

It seems that you're a dumpster fire after being fired from envoy. Get it together. I hear Mesa is hiring.

I've posted on a lot of subjects besides Envoy. I'm not the one whining like a schoolgirl because others inside and outside Envoy want to B.S. people about Envoy.

What specifically was you question about 2013 ?

It's just moving deck chairs on the Titanic. This fall they will flow 20-30/month and lose another 10/month to outside attrition.

If they slow the flow to 10/month, you will see attrition pick up to at least 20-30/month as guys that were hanging around for the flow check out.

In either scenario, the airline is shrinking. If they want people to stay, they're going to have to do something drastic. The more they need the pilots, the more money they will throw at them. Things are more likely to keep going in that direction, not get dramatically worse, as you claim. Might be a dumpster fire for management, but the pilots are doing just fine.


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I second this. Our staffing debacle is full tilt. If the company takes away from anything it is currently offering, it will only serve to make people leave quicker. The Union should offer ZERO negotiations right now. Let our "Leaders" fix the problems or not. The flow should be the least of the worries. They need to get people in the door or we will not last much more than a couple years

I agree that the pilots will be just fine. There will be plenty of jobs out there. It's a matter of seniority as well. Some here may not think Spirit or Jetblue is a place to land and that the flow will take them to AA. It may or may not. Getting on at a LCC gives you just as good a chance to get in the door at AA or any other legacy.

It's been established on this forum that you HATE envoy and everything about it. Mind telling us why or the reason you got fired?