Lol why are you always wanting a "source"? Would a point be more valid if it was prefaced with "I heard from someone...."?

Think about it. This is an internet site with people just post things that are questionable if it really is correct or not. All company and union emails I have received do not match up with what has been posted here. Whether it's a rosey garden or a pile of manure, what is being told on this thread is not an accurate account of this corporation. People posting saying, I'll PM the truth, or just posting numbers without proof isn't really going to help anyone.

Excellent advice. I think that aside from extreme bias of some here that will lead to a strong risk of slanted "information" being given them, information received BY them is at risk to be used improperly considering some of the tactics in play in luring pilots to Envoy. There's a lot of creativity shall we say, in what's being represented about Envoy these days along with a strong effort by some to censor and suppress that which doesn't serve their interests. As I've said before and it's now more appropriate then ever, CAVEAT EMPTOR, as salesmen are on the prowl.

I don't care who he is, but I'd like to know how he got fired. I've been talking to a couple people that have been down to the schoolhouse lately and it takes a LOT to get fired these days. Whether it's training screw ups or dumb stuff flying the line you'll get in trouble, but not fired. One of the quickest ways to get the company's attention I've seen is to post something identifiable and nasty about the company, especially if it has your name and pictures of our aircraft attached.

I consider this poster a model student. He's an Envoy Captain and can offer excellent advice to prospective new hires. To echo what this poster and others have said, there are some here with an axe to grind and don't even work at Envoy.

Just because people claim things on this forum, doesn't make them true. I don't know 386's history and what makes you certain others do ?

A model student ?

Are you saying he finished at the top of your sales class ?

I think VERY few pilots view Envoy by what they read on these forums alone, if at all. The REAL information they get is actually talking to Envoy pilots they know who work or worked at Envoy and IMO, THAT is where Envoy's recruitment problems arise from. From my experience, most of the "soldiers" of Envoy out there aren't giving a very glowing review of Envoy and a lot of it has to do with treatment and not just frustration with inflated flow/upgrade claims. That's what I hear when I talk to them and I make an effort at every opportunity if I come in contact with one I don't even know.

I never ask leading questions and just ask "what is the latest" or "how is life....", etc. The answers in virtually all cases run along similar lines.

That's just been my experience and YMMV.

Yes, a model student. Because of his attitude. It's readily apparent that he views Envoy as a place that has a few problems. However, the benefits far outweigh any negatives here. He will be sitting in an AA cockpit soon while people like ag386 on the outside are desperately trying to get hired at any legacy. I find your posts nothing more than the bitter musings of an old man. One who slipped through to AA when you know you never would have been hired off the street. Why don't you take your negativity elsewhere and let this thread be productive for Envoy pilots and those looking for a career at Envoy/AA.

Now this right here is funny. DAMN funny and I salute you ! :rolleyes:

In one sentence you trumpet how deserving present and future Envoy pilots will get a career at Envoy/AA implying the flow-thru process is a respectable one to take and then in another denigrate it as an evasive tool for those pilots to "slip through" ostensibly because they are unworthy of individual advancement who cannot get hired otherwise. Then, you buttress that as my questioning of inflated claims about Envoy by you and others (which have proven correct BTW) to be nothing more then the "bitter musing of an old man".

Jesus, if that doesn't reek to high heaven of anger and sour grapes, nothing does. I have to say, it sure is amusing to a bitter old man like myself and actually perked up my morning quite nicely to see you, a bitter middle-aged man revert to such emotion based illogical contradictions and for that I again salute you !

The CRJ-700 is one of the prettiest jets when it flies in circles. ;)

Silence is telling.

And like I said, I don't care who he is. He went to Allegiant and doesn't work here anymore, I consider that more relevant. Fired on top of that? Then that's another reason to not listen to him.

Why isn't he here trying to help other people get hired at Allegiant? Why isn't he saying how great it is? Why isn't he trying to help people into a better position? Instead he just b****es and moans. If I got hired elsewhere you bet your a** I'd be here helping people out and not wasting my time being a ***k about my former employer.

So you're assuming. I see.

As for "being a ***k about my former employer", not all of us have that motive. My motive is to advocate for new pilots not yet savvy as to the.....well, shall we say "less then genuine" concern for them as pilots and people as opposed for the greater concern of interests of others, especially when it may be at THEIR (the new pilots) expense. Being a ***k about my former employer is not the same as offering another perspective on the conduct and motives of others who are primarily or solely interested in themselves and/or question the information they disseminate or opinions that they too convey.

All to often, those who have a difference of opinion on these realities are incorrectly lumped as those with "an ax to grind", "bitter old men", "trolls" or some other simplistic but inaccurate term to discredit their dissenting opinion and hopefully silence that opposing information leaving those who have less then altruistic motives of other pilots free reign to take advantage of others unimpeded. While many may focus primarily on their EMPLOYERS interests (which really assist THEIRS or so they believe), I'm more focused on PILOTS and them having the ability to dissect all relevant opinions on what is discussed who then can make a more informed decision to do X or Y. As I've previously stated, I don't think Envoy is all bad, even though I get a clearly negative vibe from the majority I talk to still there or who have recently left and even with that, Envoy may be the right fit for some. But be that as it is, Envoy still has significant hurdles regarding its future that at present are NOT being successfully addressed and that is something EVERY prospective Envoy pilot should have the right to consider when making a career decision.

I realize this angers some there though as of course by the admission of many of you, the goal of working at Envoy is to hopefully NOT work there ASAP. If that weren't the goal, the flow wouldn't be the carrot and IMO, Envoy would stand on its OWN career merits like its predecessor Eagle used to as a career-oriented company.

From the horse mouth "Just because people claim things on this forum, doesn't make them true."

How Ironic!!!! Still waiting for the answer...

Yo eaglefly. Snap back 60 years 😉, you're starting all over. Where would you go?

July 17, 2016 MEC NewsBlast
07-17-2016, 01:09 PM
MEC Update
Commentary on August Schedules
It’s no secret that the schedules system wide for August are atrocious. In my 9-year career spanning two airlines, eight domiciles, and four aircraft types, I have never seen the schedules actually get worse in the middle of the summer. To say this is unprecedented in the history of this airline is an understatement. Many pilots have been reaching out to the MEC and various volunteers with the same question that has been persistently echoed for the last 2 years.

“When will it get better?”

The truth is, we simply do not know. I will not lie to any one of you and say that next month will hopefully be an improvement. Normally, with the summer schedule coming to an end on August 21st, one would expect changes (for better or worse) as the slower fall schedule sets in, but with AAG requesting Envoy cover for other carriers and operate at full throttle continuously, I can only assume that the schedules will continue in present fashion into the foreseeable future.

So what now?

The MEC and its Scheduling Committee are leaving no stone unturned in an effort to improve the quality of life for the pilots. As Scheduling Committee Chairman Jeff Cortez is forced to highlight every month, the flight files given to us from AAG are not conducive to success. AA is scheduling and running their regional operation like it is 2006, and not 2016. It is long past time for AA to wake up and realize that if this continues, Envoy and the other wholly owned carriers will continue falling short.

Worse,

Pilots talk to each other. Our prospective First Officers are better connected today than any pilots in the history of the airline industry. Many of these fledgling professional pilots know each other via social media, college, networking, or previous employment. These applicants share stories and swap information in a collective effort to find the best possible place to work. “How is Envoy? What’s the upgrade time like? How long until you hold a line? What’s life on reserve like?” are just some of the common discussion points amongst new hires. How well does AA and Envoy management think our airline stacks up when these questions are asked by pilots also interviewing at SkyWest, Endeavor, Republic, or any carrier with more favorable answers? It’s no secret we are industry lagging in almost every one of these metrics.

The remainder of 2016 will be critical for Envoy. There are 15,000 employees whose livelihoods depend on savvy management from Centreport and Regent Boulevard. Moving forward, the new reality for the fee for departure carriers will take a level of forward thinking not often seen in our industry. Some airlines are beginning to move forward with what they believe to be a successful strategy for navigating this turmoil. Others are perpetuating the managerial missteps that have brought nearly all fee for departure carriers to the brink of an unstoppable staffing nightmare.

At this point, all your MEC can do is continue to offer ideas and contractual improvements that we believe will position our carrier for success. Our Negotiating Committee has brought forward proposals and ideas to management in an effort to bring compensation to industry average, fix reserve, stop attrition, increase hiring, and set Envoy on a path towards success. Our negotiators have more proposals ready for discussion with the Company should they chose to engage.

We will continue to keep the Envoy pilots as informed as possible.

Only a person who doesn't actually fly the line and live it day after day would agree with his upbeat attitude. Let me guess, we should all be so happy? Please.

Why don't you have your fellow cohorts to stop shorting pilots on pay. Why don't you have them start honoring the contract we bargained in good faith. Why don't you tell them to stop criticizing pilots for doing what's safe instead of what's convenient to the corporation? Why don't you have them actually improve this operation instead of "just getting us through". Why don't you have them start treating their pilots like an asset and not a 100% liability. I am a captain here and I have seen so much negative impacts on my morale in the last year than my 10 year existence. Your post is my exact point and thank you for proving it. RAH, RAH, RAH! Go Envoy Go!

Another ray of sunshine from our Union on the state of our schedules.


We wish we had better news, but it looks like August is going to be another tough month. Envoy has stopped taking additional flying because of our current staffing situation. The airline simply cannot retain or hire a large enough quantity of pilots. In our discussions with Company officials, the current outlook is for this staffing crunch to continue through the end of 2016.

The flight file we got for August is bad, to say the least. We have 98% staged overnights. So the midday turns are being flown by the crews that are going into or coming out of an overnight. This leaves very few midday turns left over to build anything other than four day trips. This is especially hurtful to pilots with overnights that leave the outstation very late in the day. Below is an explanation of what solutions have been run in an effort to improve this.

August’s flight file allows for 4 different possibilities when running solutions:
1. Limiting the number of 2/3 days
2. Restricting 4 days and asking for 2 and 3 days
3. No restriction on pairing length
4. No CDOs

Of the 4 possibilities, the best option is #3. It gave us the highest block per day, highest pairing average, and the least number of lines with the highest line value. This solution is largely 4 day trips (mainly in DFW), but should allow for most lines to have 3 days off in between sequences. Option number 3 allows for a higher line average which should result in more days off than the other options.

The Scheduling Committee is simply unable to improve upon the Company’s results due to the incredibly poor flight schedule provided to Envoy by AAG.

There is some good news, as at the very least we were able to get commutability up a little higher than in July.

Jeff Cortez
Envoy Scheduling Committee Chairman

Current line holder on the 175 is Sep 2013.

I'm sure Eaglepilot84 is on cloud 9. A member of management noticed his "great and upbeat attitude." Just proves.....another management suckup.

So is Eagle lounge dead for good?

Im sure lines will come up once we pick up the scraps from the C7 and E145 and hopefully more mainline MD80 flying.

New Envoy Information
 

And you're assuming your version of everything is authoritative.

That's the difference. I assume everyone has the capability to do their own due diligence and ask the hard questions. They can make their own career decisions. Negative information has its place. However, you seem to assume they're idiots and need to be belittled for thinking differently than you. They also apparently need to be actively dissuaded from applying here.

I also see no denial from 386 regarding his current employer, again silence tells a lot. Regardless, my opinion on his actions here remain unchanged.

New JR capt is a 2010 hire. 6.5 years to upgrade.

I'll go ahead and answer you as you recognize the company's failures and aren't a 100% rah rah Envoy salesman.

My tenure at Eaglevoy was 6.5 years. I gave a 2 week notice and was paid my vacation that remained. Wasn't fired. One checkride failure on my record from first private lesson to date. CFI Oral. Currently employed at my current LCC, Allegiant.

Not that it really matters. Why should any of you care where I am now and whether I was fired, failed training, etc.? I don't even WORK HERE and I guess that's the only thing that's important to some.

Absolutely. I've said before that pilots shouldn't take anything they read here at face value and that includes me. What they SHOULD do is compare multiple sources of information. I think if they do that, the realities of Envoy will be quite clear. Some may still choose Envoy and that's fine as they will have done that as a result of due diligence unlike many of the dopes of the past who now must act in desperation to pad the bottom of the pyramid with the gullible to mitigate their own LACK of due diligence. ;)

As for the answer you seek, ask the question again so I know what you're interested in and maybe I'll answer it.

Just curious, but what's First Officer Bucket's present upgrade projection ? Is he still holding a melted chocolate bar and looking quite messy and sticky ?

Again, remember the Alamo. When one is bankrupt of anything valid and coherent, it's the only place left to seek cover. Plus, the ESC's favorite location is known to be stocked with Blatz light ! :D

Completely fabricated

Yup, and 2010 was a light year in hiring, latest seniority list shows about 100 pilots hired in 2010.

Recruiting department a little slow Skyvector? You and CR700 pals now?

Wait, I remember you posting about how you were heading to Allegiant within the previous 6 months. That means you were hired by eagle about 7 years ago. I'm no math genius, but 7 years from today is mid-2009. Did we even hire in 2009?!

Long time lurker first time poster.

I follow these boards to keep up with the industry. Currently at Envoy and am looking to move upward to major or LCC.

Have to chime in as I can't take the lies being spread here anymore.
Let me say it. THERE IS NO 2.5 YEAR UPGRADE here! I was hired at Envoy in May of 2013 and according to the gouge on here

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...ml#post2029378

I'd link the actual quote but the thread was closed due to the trolling flamebait nature of your post.


Your story is completely fabricated and you created the ag386 account since your previous one was banned.

Haha good look on finding that! I wonder what other lies we will hear from this guy!

Anybody wanting a chicago base, consider this. There are 20 175s coming to ORD and so far there are 4 FOs slotted on it. So the next few classes of new hires can enjoy super seniority chicago 175 FO till the upgrade comes.

Well I am SOL, Don't think I can even get into Envoy... Oh well

You guys are a bunch of suckers. You'll fall for anything.

Nice back peddle. Still want to stick with two week notice line too?

Ag696969. Just own up to it. Tell us the story. You're at allegiant now? All is well, right???

Aaaaand, BOOM! goes the dynamite.

Crying in the CP office? Classic.

It was bad. Assistant CP and secretary in there. I couldn't hold it in. Just lost it and took me a while to compose myself.

Still doesn't change that Envoy is a company that will ride you hard and put you up wet. And then not let you flow.