The Envoy salesman out here "walking the walk." You're stupid if you don't go to Envoy right?

Does anyone else see the inevitable displacement coming for FOs? We all know company wants to hire into the 175. With 7 March new hires and this recent upgrade for CAs, how many new hires are needed to stay on track for training FOs in the 175?

If hiring lags behind the need for FOs then a vacancy will have to open up in the 175. I would assume they would come out of the 145 since we can park the 140s and give away 145s.

Wishful thinking?

What happens when the monkeys rise and take dominion over humanity? What happens when a huge meteor destroys the earth? Isn't the "What If" game fun! You just make up whatever crazy scenario you want without substance or validity.

Exactly! Just like you guys "projections" of 2.5/6.

But his "what if" doesn't lack substance. He is not saying it is a guarantee, but it is certainly possible, and arguably likely.

envoy already, right now, as we speak, has airframes sitting idle due to lack of crews. Claiming that they will stop the flow at some future date in order to not have to park airplanes while they have already parked airplanes due to lack of crews does lack substance.

ag386 and his leader the Reverand like to point out past actions by AMR as indicators of future actions by AAG be only when it supports their agenda.

Envoy recruitment in full effect. Pilots should show up to the interview, and interview recruitment. If they get ****y, just call Mesa right there in the interview, and say I would like to be in class next week, Mesa will hire you, and now you have the upper hand.

This is good advice but I might suggest Compass, SkyWest or Endeavor long before slumming it at Mesa.

Envoy is overstaffed right now. If airplanes are sitting idle, it's not for lack of pilots.

I would suggest Skywest, Compass or Endeavor before slumming it at Envoy or Mesa.

Yup, and Saddam had weapons of Mass Destruction. We are "overstaffed" because their future staffing projections were wrong. They are thinking 3, 6, 12 and 24 months ahead.


If we are currently "overstaffed" why did they suddenly want to offer Retention/New Hire bonuses that they have been turning down for years? Why the sudden interest if we are "overstaff"? We will just call that "An Inconvenient Truth" to your campaign agenda.

Everyone knows the smartest choice you can make right now is Allegiant! That company is soaring!

Soaring like the Hindenburg.

So nice to have someone with your caliber of judgment-who DOES NOT work at Envoy-come here daily and grace us with your wisdom. The tag-team you do with your hero-who I won't name-is really cute. Keep it up. Of course it's getting more and more difficult to spin negativity about Envoy, isn't it? That's why your tag team partner has been so silent these past few weeks.

Don't worry...it's going to get even more difficult for the two of you pretty soon. Just wait until the next batch of announcements are made...It'll be fun watching you guys attempt to spin it. So fun I'm just sitting back and letting you and your pals post all the drivel you can...It'll just make it all the more sweeter here pretty soon!

If it isn't the Chump patrol teaming up today. Let me guess. You guys are going to tag team today saying things like:

A new hire today can expect to upgrade in 2.5 years and flow to AA in 6.

E175s arriving daily. Envoy looking at getting back flying from RAH, Compass, Expressjet and TSA very soon.

Best regional contract in the industry.

Industry leading flow. Essentially you are an AA pilot from day one at Envoy.

Anybody who disputes any of this is not only the dumbest of the dumb but, we will give you a blanket party for saying bad things about the company we are in love with.

^That was weak. Is that the best you got? Take a break...go have some ice tea...come back and try again.

You, the Reverand and Rick Wilson are the only one's making this claim. Everyone, even us cheerleaders have said that this is not realistic. But again, for you to acknowledge that doesn't serve your agenda. How are things going at... Piedmont, isn't it? Or was that a lie, just like your "envoy hire date"?

In the past, when aircraft were sitting idle, envoy/Eagle did not hesitate to furlough. Because why pay the salaries and benefits of employees who aren't working? In recent months, however, they chose to do just that. Why is that? And why are they metering the flowthrough due to staffing? And why, when planes are sitting idle, as you say, and they are offering zero- and part-time lines, and many reserves barely fly, is this normally tightwad management team offering retention bonuses? Doesn't make sense, does it? Except that it does. Everybody knows a staffing crunch is coming. In the first 2 months of this year we hired 40 pilots, while 99 left. How long can we keep that up? At some point soon, not immediately but soon, staffing will be become an issue here, just as it is an issue at every regional. At that point, we get to see if this management team, who violates the contract any time they are remotely inconvenienced by it, who hides behind "operational necessity" in every grievance, will honor the flowthrough. I personally think we'll make it just through the 824 before the violations begin, but do you really see them parking expensive, profitable planes some day, just to honor our contract? They aren't willing to delay a single flight or burn through a single available reserve to honor it today.

I think that is plenty of substance.

You are thinking rationally. Taking what you know management has done in the past and applying it to what the picture looks like in the future.

You'll never get those two guys above on board. I've brought up these same arguments in the past and like a blitzkrieg, these guys and their cronies are right there telling me what an idiot I am for saying such.

Like you, I'm saying it today. The flow is moving along right now, although with a wrench already thrown in by management that has disrupted it a bit. However, as the pilot corps at Envoy shrinks toward that 1600-1700 number, especially with the dismal hiring numbers they are showing, I would not be surprised to see Envoy meter even below the number in the contract. Sure, it's another violation but so what. They already have a stack of contract violations several feet high.

I can guarantee that AAG isn't going to allow Envoy to ship off more pilots that can fly the planes they want them to. That's where you may see the flow get cut down to a trickle. Maybe 5 a month if that's all the new hires they can get. With the crap wages and sorry treatment Envoy is offering, I can't see the few available qualified guys out there flocking to this bottom feeding company. Above it's mentioned that maybe someone should go slumming with Mesa. It's not even funny, but new hires are really slumming it with Envoy as well.

Who says airframes are not being used? Source?

Is that the 3/28 class or the 4/11 class??

3/28

Filler...

I walked by the allegiant booth a couple of times at WAI and never saw a single person go up and talk to them. If that says anything...

How about the empty Envoy booths at career fairs across the country? If that says anything....

Seems that someone hasn't being in the latest career fairs.

Running out of bullets?

Yeah, he obviously hasn't seen any Envoy booths lately. But like you said, he's out of arguments.

Allegient will sink in soon enough..if even that is the truth. No telling with that guy.

Yeah, Envoy is going to shrink. That's a fact. The only question is, can Envoy get enough new hires to keep the flow going? Or will the flow turn into a trickle after the last of the 824 leave the building.

You really should go back to making up threads like the Mesa Lies that you did. You certainly aren't putting out any useful information here.

I saw people standing in line at every other booth at WAI, even RAH. So, yeah, that says something.

Would somebody mind telling me how many pilots are on the seniority list from 2000 to the end of 2011?

Guess you are like your General, CR700. A move to a LCC, Allegiant, Virgin, Jetblue, Spirit is a LATERAL move. Right?

400 to 500

This vacancy bid should award upgrades to pilots hired in the first quarter of 2008, between that point and early 2011 there are around 150 pilots.

Allegiant is not even in the same class as the other 3 listed, and way below Jetblue.

It seems he doesn't know what is a LCC and ULCC.

From the beginning of 2000 to the end of 2011 we have ~1300 pilots on the seniority list. Not sure where WHAT got his numbers.

Can you show how envoy is going to shrink?

He asked to beginning of 2011, not end of 2011.

I missed the 2000 and used 2010.

It's all good. But that brings up an interesting fact: with the flow at 30/month the last person hired in 2011 should flow in late 2019/early 2020. How many pilots hired after 2011 on the list? I'm guessing around 300 without pulling up the official seniority list. Possibly less.

So let's call it 300. And let's put the flow for that group at 15/month which is conservative. That means the most junior pilot would flow 20 months after the last 2011 hire. Which puts it around 2022.

6 years from today for a new hire.

Thanks! I appreciate the info.

If all goes well without a single hiccup. History proves that hiccups are virtually certain going forward.

Missing something. Protected pilots are at 25 a month, not 30. That's 60 pilots less a year.

The company's magic number is 30/month through the protected pilot group. No more, no less. That means that for the 824 the months they hire more than 60 they will be metered. For the protected pilot group, it will be no less than 30 regardless...so in the company's zoomed out view it's a wash.

But it will be 30 for the PP group as well. They want to get through the "previous agreement" groups as quickly as possible. Then they can go to making all 3 wholly owned flows 50% combined and street hired the other 50%.