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Originally Posted by Skyvector
(Post 2089740)
The company's magic number is 30/month through the protected pilot group. No more, no less. That means that for the 824 the months they hire more than 60 they will be metered. For the protected pilot group, it will be no less than 30 regardless...so in the company's zoomed out view it's a wash.
But it will be 30 for the PP group as well. They want to get through the "previous agreement" groups as quickly as possible. Then they can go to making all 3 wholly owned flows 50% combined and street hired the other 50%. So let's get this straight...Dic Wilson has said that currently we are "overstaffed," (and this is clearly shown by our hard lines not even meeting guarantee) but yet we are metering the 824 because of "future staffing projections" he says. But yet you would have us believe that the company is going to send 30 protected pilots a month, instead of the minimum 25? That's a load of horse manure right there. The ironic thing is that sending MORE flows from envoy right now would help decrease upgrade time and help with recruiting, but all management can see are numbers on their all-important spreadsheet. |
Originally Posted by TrinityDawn
(Post 2090462)
The ironic thing is that sending MORE flows from envoy right now would help decrease upgrade time and help with recruiting, but all management can see are numbers on their all-important spreadsheet.
They will have to exceed expectations with the flow. The classis Eagle style of making big promises and not following through isn't going to cut it during the current regional pilot staffing crisis. People have plenty of other options to pursue. If they would have flowed 50 a month last year, we would be flying 85 hrs lines, the upgrade would be down to the 2013 hires, and they would be filling their new hire classes with pilots that have confidence in the promise of flow. The longer they wait to "exceed expectations" that less of an affect that such actions will have on recruitment. It may have already been too late. Imagine what their staffing would be today if Parker had come in and made improvements at Eagle in 2012 or at the very least accepted our bankruptcy contract. The pennies he saved back then is going to cost him dollars going forward. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2089738)
Missing something. Protected pilots are at 25 a month, not 30. That's 60 pilots less a year.
“Protected Pilots” Hired By Envoy On or Before October 11, 2011 The provisions of Letters 12-02, 12-03 and 12-04 (“Protected Pilots”) shall remain in full force and effect and will be enhanced by the language below: Upon delivery of the 40th EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D, and assuming there are still pilots who were added to the Envoy master seniority list on or before October 11, 2011 who have not yet been offered a flow through opportunity, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 25 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to such Envoy pilots, until the point in time when the next pilot on the Envoy master seniority list to be offered a flow through opportunity was hired after October 11, 2011. Pilots Hired By Envoy After October 11, 2011 At the point in time when the first pilot hired after October 11, 2011 is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 15 per month (subject to the 35%), shall go to Envoy pilots. Pilots Hired After DOS At the point in time when the first pilot hired after DOS is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, the lesser of (a) 25% of all AA new hire training slots in that calendar year, or (b) five new hire training slots (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy master seniority list) times (“x”) the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which AA actually hired pilots, shall go to Envoy pilots. |
Looks like two E-145s coming back from xjt in May. It's not much, but it's another move in the right direction.
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Originally Posted by N927EV
(Post 2091724)
Looks like two E-145s coming back from xjt in May. It's not much, but it's another move in the right direction.
Get those apps out. Maybe JetBlue, Spirit and Virgin are lateral moves to you guys, but it's got to be better than being an Envoy slave for years to come. |
Originally Posted by ag386
(Post 2091753)
Good for Envoy and the possibility of more upgrades and flying. Bad for the flow. Once Envoy reaches correct staffing, which should be close to when the last of the 824 leave, you will likely see the flow re-negotiated to just a handful per month.....reduced to 0 due to operational necessity months. Yes, your union will roll over for Uncle Dougie.....again.
Get those apps out. Maybe JetBlue, Spirit and Virgin are lateral moves to you guys, but it's got to be better than being an Envoy slave for years to come. You clearly don't know anything about envoy, just another troll. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2091755)
Lol...renegotiate the flow? Are you even aware of the Protected Pilot agreement?
You clearly don't know anything about envoy, just another troll. Re-negotiated. Yes. I'm aware of the PP agreement. What's going to happen though is the staffing will reach critical late this year. Envoy will keep on flowing though. Right? Wrong! They'll violate your agreement so quick in the name of "operational necessity." They've never violated your contract so far, right? Think your union will help? Think again. They're a toothless tiger. In fact, I fully expect them to HELP the company reach a re-negotiated agreement for greatly reducing the flow. Park planes to keep the flow going. Yeah, right. Add up the numbers yourself. You need new hires to keep this train rolling and management is already desperate for them...in an overstaffed situation. |
Originally Posted by ag386
(Post 2091762)
Immediate response from the Envoy Patrol. On guard constantly protecting their carrier that does so much for them.
Re-negotiated. Yes. I'm aware of the PP agreement. What's going to happen though is the staffing will reach critical late this year. Envoy will keep on flowing though. Right? Wrong! They'll violate your agreement so quick in the name of "operational necessity." They've never violated your contract so far, right? Think your union will help? Think again. They're a toothless tiger. In fact, I fully expect them to HELP the company reach a re-negotiated agreement for greatly reducing the flow. Park planes to keep the flow going. Yeah, right. Add up the numbers yourself. You need new hires to keep this train rolling and management is already desperate for them...in an overstaffed situation. |
Originally Posted by N927EV
(Post 2091767)
Hey, man. Don't worry about us. Just worry about yourself and say whatever you have to to justify your move to allegiant.
Probably some other regional FO trying to get people below him. |
Envoy is no longer overstaffed. Zero time and part time lines are gone, critical coverage was declared all month for DFW FO's, TDY's in effect in April, CDO's are back, line values are back above guarantee and RSV numbers are dwindling.
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Originally Posted by ag386
(Post 2091753)
Good for Envoy and the possibility of more upgrades and flying. Bad for the flow. Once Envoy reaches correct staffing, which should be close to when the last of the 824 leave, you will likely see the flow re-negotiated to just a handful per month.....reduced to 0 due to operational necessity months. Yes, your union will roll over for Uncle Dougie.....again.
Get those apps out. Maybe JetBlue, Spirit and Virgin are lateral moves to you guys, but it's got to be better than being an Envoy slave for years to come. |
Originally Posted by Buzzlightyear
(Post 2091793)
Envoy is no longer overstaffed. Zero time and part time lines are gone, critical coverage was declared all month for DFW FO's, TDY's in effect in April, CDO's are back, line values are back above guarantee and RSV numbers are dwindling.
Also Ord is short on CAs. It will be an interesting year. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2091797)
Shhh...come on man. Yoy know that facts are not allowed to this threads???
Also Ord is short on CAs. It will be an interesting year. I think I'll just stay here and "keep wasting everybody's time." At least a few here seem to be getting a grasp on reality. |
Passing on relevant info, something this thread is lacking.
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Anyone know the 175 training schedule? How long? What? Etc...
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Originally Posted by Danodano
(Post 2092920)
Anyone know the 175 training schedule? How long? What? Etc...
1 week Basic Indoc 2 weeks CBT 2 weeks systems 10 sims I think. Not sure because is AQP, so there's a Maneuvers Validations and Loft (which is your checkride). IOE It should be about 2 months total. Pay is 64hrs at your rate + 16hr per Diem per day. Roughly about $2500 per month. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2091797)
Shhh...come on man. Yoy know that facts are not allowed to this threads???
Also Ord is short on CAs. It will be an interesting year. |
Originally Posted by riel39
(Post 2092942)
I just sat home on RAP for the last three days; and I commute.
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Originally Posted by Buzzlightyear
(Post 2092948)
I too sat at home on RAP and didn't get called yesterday. The difference is 6 months ago I routinely had over 25 below me on days like yesterday. Now I have 2 below me. Things have changed and for the most part we are no longer overstaffed.
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Originally Posted by Jersdawg
(Post 2092986)
So by all means, let's get rid of the 190 fleet and shrink mainline so we can rely more on the regional feed disaster. GREAT idea.
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Originally Posted by FlameNSky
(Post 2092989)
Actually his plan is to replace the E190 fleet with more Airbus 319/320 Aircraft. So... No not really relying more on regionals.
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Latest reports from Envoy pilots are that F/O's with 4.5-5 years cannot hold a line and are on reserve. Charlie Bucket still seems to have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong road ahead to chocolate covered glory. :cool:
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2092993)
Latest reports from Envoy pilots are that F/O's with 4.5-5 years cannot hold a line and are on reserve. Charlie Bucket still seems to have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong road ahead to glory. :cool:
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2092993)
Latest reports from Envoy pilots are that F/O's with 4.5-5 years cannot hold a line and are on reserve. Charlie Bucket still seems to have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong road ahead to chocolate covered glory. :cool:
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Originally Posted by Jersdawg
(Post 2092997)
Doesn't that say to you that there is still some serious overstaffing going on?
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2092993)
Latest reports from Envoy pilots are that F/O's with 4.5-5 years cannot hold a line and are on reserve. Charlie Bucket still seems to have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong road ahead to chocolate covered glory. :cool:
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Originally Posted by GodIsGood
(Post 2093005)
What hasn't been reported is reserve on the CRJ. It's only 8-9 months. And the E-175 now going to new hires is projected to be shorter than that.
What a mess. :cool: |
Originally Posted by Justrun
(Post 2093010)
Not being able to have a line and choosing reserve are two different things.
Nothing enticing about a broken seniority system for any pilot, new or not. Sounds like a very helpless feeling to me. |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2093011)
Even worse since pilots can't transfer between planes meaning senior pilots will be trapped in reserve when more junior hold hard schedules.
What a mess. :cool: |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2093011)
Even worse since pilots can't transfer between planes meaning senior pilots will be trapped in reserve when more junior hold hard schedules.
What a mess. :cool: |
Originally Posted by GodIsGood
(Post 2093005)
What hasn't been reported is reserve on the CRJ. It's only 8-9 months. And the E-175 now going to new hires is projected to be shorter than that.
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Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84
(Post 2093023)
Jeez man, get a life. 90% of your posts are for a company you have no attachment to whatsoever. Whether or not envoy lives up to the hopes and expectations that it's current pilots have for it, shouldn't matter to you. You clearly have all this time on you hands to post on APC, so why is it all spent on the envoy thread? Serious question.
We are all here for entertainment and none of us holds dominion on why others post wherever. Probably a good idea for you to accept that and move on. Some come here for dubious purposes to take advantage of others and some come here for the opposite. That's life. |
Originally Posted by 3inthegreen
(Post 2093048)
Well isn't that just fantastic. What about the 100 Plus FOs that are Dallas based, been here for 3+years, some almost 5, and can't hold a line???
Every one of them had the opportunity to displace over to the 175 back in October. If they wanted to fly the new jet, they could have. There is another 45 pilots being sent from ORD to DFW on the 145. If they are RSV for April, chances are it won't be for long. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Shiner
(Post 2093081)
Every one of them had the opportunity to displace over to the 175 back in October. If they wanted to fly the new jet, they could have. There is another 45 pilots being sent from ORD to DFW on the 145. If they are RSV for April, chances are it won't be for long.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2093058)
Serious answer : Your point here is irrelevant to the discussion.
We are all here for entertainment and none of us holds dominion on why others post wherever. Probably a good idea for you to accept that and move on. Some come here for dubious purposes to take advantage of others and some come here for the opposite. That's life. I also find it interesting that you can look into your crystal ball and know what DP and new hires will do. |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 2093058)
Serious answer : Your point here is irrelevant to the discussion.
We are all here for entertainment and none of us holds dominion on why others post wherever. Probably a good idea for you to accept that and move on. Some come here for dubious purposes to take advantage of others and some come here for the opposite. That's life. My purpose on coming here is to get information for myself. When I see lies of misinformation I respond to it with the most accurate information available to me. If it is anything positive in nature (look through my post history, I've posted both positive and negative things about envoy) I'm accused of being a "cheerleader" or to you, a "jackal." That's my reasoning for posting on here. What's yours? |
Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84
(Post 2093125)
My purpose on coming here is to get information for myself. When I see lies of misinformation I respond to it with the most accurate information available to me. If it is anything positive in nature (look through my post history, I've posted both positive and negative things about envoy) I'm accused of being a "cheerleader" or to you, a "jackal." That's my reasoning for posting on here. What's yours?
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Originally Posted by adspilot
(Post 2093098)
I find it interesting that you constantly complain about personal attacks and yet you consistently accuse people on here as being dubious, lying, predators preying on the new pilots, ect.....
Yes, we do live in interesting times.
Originally Posted by adspilot
(Post 2093098)
I also find it interesting that you can look into your crystal ball and know what DP and new hires will do.
Actually, that isn't all that interesting, it's predictable. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2093128)
Well there you have it! Eagleflight is here for entertainment, not information. Which is a definition of a T R O L L.
We are ALL here for entertainment (only some cannot admit it:rolleyes:) and there's nothing wrong about that. This isn't an employment forum, but many do come here for information. That being the case, don't you think accuracy in that dept. is important ? Is the info being given out by a small number of "pilots" at Envoy accurate or inflated and assumption, but packaged as fact ? Is it understandable some will dispute that which appears obvious that way ? Why is it so difficult to stay true and honest when seeking to lure pilots to Envoy ? Why despite the rosiest claims here have significant numbers of pilots still not quit their present regionals and succumb to the poaching efforts of Envoy and a small number of their pilots here ? Life is filled with many questions, but far fewer answers and since I ask a lot of questions here (that never seem to be answered), I guess I'm here for information too and not just entertainment. ;) |
Anyone know new hire #'s today? Thanks!
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