Gotcha. Missed the /s!

Quick note on the flow - they gave us an "extra" five slots. That brings the pilot's DOH actually leaving the property (not sitting in the pool) to 12/13/99. This pilot was awarded flow February 12 and will get the April 5 class. There are 37 pilots awarded flow sitting in the pool waiting to go.

2 months to flow after award. That will change with letter T pilot's return.

16 years, 4 months to flow.

Yeah, but you're "twisting the facts."

I guess your reference was toward cr700 and GiG? Otherwise I missed the [/sarcasm].

I guess I should also note that the extra pilots may be to front load the flow a little in expectation of letter T pilots.

You are correct sir. I have stated in previous posts that today: flow is 16 years 2 months or whatever. CR, GiG or Skyvector don't waste any time telling me how I'm "twisting the facts."

Your attempt at proving other's ignorance has again shown your own. Were you too lazy to verify or just conveniently overlooking facts to further your agenda (again)?

:D

Do YOU know how many people will upgrade on the next bid? No? Then stick your sarcasm where the sun don't shine. I've watched you and a few other current envoy pilots post here for a while and it's exhausting.

All you do is complain, complain, and complain like a little child. Tell you what! You think things are so bad? QUIT! Put up or shut up! Everyone is hiring!

Even better...go take my old job at Mesa! Yeah, please...go to Mesa. You will come running back to envoy after about 1 month with an entirely new perspective on life. Envoy isn't my first airline, not my first regional and I can tell you how much better things are around here. Even before the recent wave of good news and good trends. But all you and a few others can do is look for the negative under every little pebble.

And before you say it, I may be new to Envoy but I'm not new to the airlines...and I'm certainly not new to working indirectly with Doug Parker. So far all my flying was under US Airways Express over at Mesa. You want a disaster of epic proportions? Go turn in your badge tomorrow, resign and get hired at Mesa. They will hire you over the phone...that is true. Go take a peek at how things work at other regionals and you will have a new profound appreciation for envoy and maybe cut out the pre-school crying.

You're twisting the facts...I'll tell you straight up. You know it, I know it, everyone here knows it. But nobody cares what you think. Your entire history is questionable and now you work for an airline that makes Spirit look like Pan Am in it's golden years. You are a fool and a con artist...I'll say it and don't care.

Riddle me this then Batman. How do you "twist a fact?" It is what it is. Can't be twisted. Thus your fact is.......today.....your flow is 16 years 4 months.

Enjoy your next 15 at the "crown jewel" of regionals.

Riddle me this, Robin: Are people jumping in a time machine and being hired in 1999? Or are they being hired in 2016? It' about how many people are above you and how many flow per month...

You know this but choose to TWIST THE FACTS over and over. Con artist and a fool is what you are. And don't worry...any Regional is a crown jewel compared to where you are.

Well, apparently you're "all in" and buying the sales job they've put on you. I can say that in this case then Batman, the Joker has pulled one on you.

I have no idea nor have any information available re: how many bids will come or how many Capt vacancies. THAT information is not available to you, I, or him.

What IS available is a seniority list and a calculator. They were obviously not used prior to his post.

I'm not "dissing" Envoy. I've spent 16+ yrs here trying to make it the best it could be. What I AM dissing is the people who intentionally misrepresent facts to further their own self serving agenda. So long as <reasonable> assumptions are put forth, you'll hear little out of me...

Since you're not "new" to the airlines you likely could see through the smoke. Others who ARE new to the industry don't have that experience and could be sucked in by half truths. I just don't think that's fair to them.

Comparing Envoy to Mesa and saying how good we've got it? We already have a certain manager hired from there who seems hell bent to take us in that direction. No, thanks. Too many people have worked too hard here through the years to make EGL/ ENY the BEST it can be. Evidently you agree, so why don't you pick up the baton?

Apparently my comment is being construed as a basis for our flow's projected performance in a linear manner.

Like any stock, past performance should not be used to predict future gains.

Our flow is currently at 16 years, 4 months. That is undeniable.


It will change. It will drop. That too, is undeniable.

The only debate is whether it will make it to the advertised 2.5/5.

I completely agree.

I hope that the Envoy Pilots current and future have it better than I and my "generation."

Barring a catastrophe they almost certainly will.

2.5/6?

I wouldn't start cashing THOSE checks quite yet.

16 years 2 months minus the 10 years of no hiring at any legacy.
Tell facts, but include all the facts.

Do you think hiring will stop?
Do you think the 3950 guys with mandatory retirement before 2021 won't retire?
What's 1/2 of 3950?
How many of the 1800ish pilots at Envoy will flow?

With the legacy hiring picking up its little more than insurance, but is still better than what others have.
When they're on the jumpseat We hear nothing except how they wish they had it as the backup too

It very well could for any number of reasons. For a decade ? Definitely not likely, but for months or even a couple of years ? Distinctly possible.

Your figures don't match mine. From now until end of 2020 (4 years, 9 months), I came up with about 2850 age 65 retirements from the combined list. My US Airways numbers may be in question though. Could you verify your figures and source ?

I'm sure most DO wish they had that deal, but I think many believe jumping ship to the back of that line isn't a good risk. If they did you'd see more defections from other regionals. Probably similar why most Envoy F/O's won't jump ship laterally to chase a faster upgrade.

3950 was 2015-2021; that is six years from when the company first projected a 6 year flow to AA. Half of the 3950 retirements is well above our entire pilot list of guys who will elect to flow. We've already sent over 500 of the 824. People complain about Envoy shrinking from 3000 to now under 2000 without ever considering that over 850 went via flow to AA. Like it or not, the new AAG is much better than AMR was at making the flow work.

Is it perfect, nope; but it's a better program than anybody else has.

I agree that the retirement numbers look great, but how small will we be when another 500 flow? How small can we get?

hiring is their problem to fix

Agreed that hiring is their problem to fix and a nice analogy that paints a rosy picture of the last 5 years. As we both know, it hasn't been all that rosy for the pilots that remain at Envoy.

Although hiring is their problem to fix, you do understand that you eventually need replacements for the guys flowing right? Over the past year and a half it has been a non issue as Envoy as shrunk.

At this point, Envoy has stopped shrinking, at least temporarily. It may become permanent though as the other AAG wholly owneds are experiencing the same problem as Envoy. They can't find enough new hires. Tack on RAH's crummy on time record and inability to complete their flying, it does appear that AAG wants to shift some of that 175 flying to Envoy. If this does indeed end up being the case, then it's as I've been saying these past few weeks. By the end of this year, Envoy will find itself in a critical position in regards to staffing.

I'm going to go ahead right now and guarantee you that Parker/AAG are absolutely not going to let any Envoy aircraft sit idle as pilots exit Envoy to AA. They will either flat out claim operational necessity and violate the flow agreement or they will reach some kind of deal with the union that maybe offers a few more bucks but cuts off the flow for an indeterminate period as operational necessity dictates.

Sure, you will cry that it will halt recruiting efforts and no one will come to Envoy. However it appears that's already happened. The few remaining qualified pilots willing to sell their soul to Envoy have all but disappeared. At your seniority, being outside the 824, I would gear up for a longer stint at Envoy than originally planned.

Do you have any clue how many aircraft are already currently parked? Apparently not. It hasn't stopped or slowed the flow yet.

We're actually pulling a few out of storage because we still have staffing.

I agree, but the price of them not fixing it is paid by the pilots.

Not what you seemed to insinuate. It was more confidence ALL present Envoy pilots will flow BY 2021. But, to be accurate a new hire of today (or Charlie Bucket from Last May with what, 100 pilots junior to him) are concerned with today's projection forward. If by end of 2020, how many Envoy pilots can flow if only 50% equals 1400 or so ? Not all. Envoy is keen about metering even when they don't have to and can they meter to say 25/month for PP pilots ? If so, by the end of the window you describe (BY 2021), that would be about 300/year or 1300 or so and if Envoy has 1900 pilots the statement all Envoy pilots will flow BY end of 2020 seems not so cut and dried.

if it only went by retirements alone, this year we'd only be sending around 175; while the current projection is closer to 300 should flow. Same for next year; they've already projected flowing well above the number required for retirements alone.

we can play this game all day.

Fact remains the flow is and has been working now for several years. Is it perfect, nope. It is however better than what anybody else has. Complain about it all you want; that is a fact.

You're back on ignore.

Jesus. I note clear discrepancies in your claims, take no personal shots and simply question them and now I'm "back on ignore" (for like the 3rd time) ?

No problem. :rolleyes:

Evasion like this puts me back to highlighting the fact is those claims (and that math) are simply optimistic projections that are no more solid then then anything previously. Pilots should know and understand NOT just the rosiest outlook, but the realistic one as well to make an informed decision.

your continual distortion and twisting of facts isn't going to change so I'm done with you.

if I can remember how the ignore works again that is

It doesn't help that much, everyone keeps quoting him.

You could say that they sun will rise tomorrow and eaglefly will argue until blue in the face that to say such is a wild projection and that there is no guarantee that will happen. eaglefly just likes to argue and create contention. If its not obvious by now, its the only social interaction he gets. Well, that and his five girlfriends.

How many flow are they projecting for next year?

Ah yes. The ultimate sin here. "Twisting the facts." Second only to YOU DON'T EVEN WORK HERE!

A hearty welcome back to the Board Chairman of the Envoy Patrol. Gotta assume your mandatory probation brought to you by Envoy management is complete.

I don't think the 300 flow projection this year is going to work out. The latest word from AA recruitment is 10 a class starting in May until the training backlog is cleared.

I am twisting the "facts" ? I asked you to correct me and/or explain your claims. Back-peddling to irrelevancy by saying "Envoy is the best flow" IS NOT doing either (and I agree..........it is). I posted my numbers that show the practical reasons it is NOT likely Charlie Bucket hired in May 2015 will be on AA property by end of 2020 as YOU imply, let alone a pilot hiring on today and you go bananas.

I can see why you're "done with me". Apparently, adult discussion and debate is simply too much for you and so for your own well being perhaps it's best you move on.

It seems to be a broken record with this bunch. They quote numbers, show graphs and make claims and the minute they are questioned (even respectfully, but firmly with opposing numbers), the throw a tantrum, throw rocks or go ostrich like Cujo. :cool:

Yes, Cujo was the chief Rottweiler in the past Envoy sales dept. , but went on hiatus, but it looked like he was apparently back with a growl. Unfortunately, it's sounding now more like the whimper of a Chihuahua as it flees the discussion at the first sign of discomfort.

Oh well, every dog has his day and I guess his was in the past. Meanwhile, back to the discussion...........

Well, I'm sure this will be pooh-poohed, but I've heard (as usual) the Summer flying will by busy, many check Airman will be flying (and training) and so the ability to ram maximum pilots into line qualification will be stressed this Summer (as it always is). Thus, the ability to push too many pilots through the training pipeline will be impeded somewhat. Letter T pilots will be the focus, but they may initially try and mix in some streeties and flows, but likely by June or July, the LT's will be it. Things have strong risk to be slow for street/flowbies for awhile. Also, Envoy ALPA told their pilots recently that from their understanding, Envoy pilots can expect to be metered to minimum rate essentially for the forseeable future and so that likely means metering to what 25/month ? 300 will likely not happen this year and maybe not even 250. Next year 300 seems more likely, but chuck the chocolate covered bucket boy will almost certainly have a longer wait then advertised until his creamy goop hardens and he's ready to be fed into the AA candy wrapping machine.

American Airlines Pilot Arrested After Failing Breathalyzer Test at Detroit Airport - ABC News

What's the word on the AA E-190 FO who was arrested for being drunk at 6 AM in DET today? Was he an Envoy "flow"?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cee7CApXEAEBHwM.jpg

No.


filler.......