Originally Posted by eaglefly

Your frustration is understandable. You realize though you just put a bulls-eye on yourself for saying this, yes ? The facts you present don't matter to a small, but quite savage pack of jackals here as it is not in-line with their interests. That being said, I think both the upgrade and flow will likely happen in the future for you if you stay long enough, just not in the timelines being suggested, especially the upgrade.

Good Luck on wherever the future takes you.

Originally Posted by ag386

Long time lurker first time poster.



I follow these boards to keep up with the industry. Currently at Envoy and am looking to move upward to major or LCC.



Have to chime in as I can't take the lies being spread here anymore.

Let me say it. THERE IS NO 2.5 YEAR UPGRADE here! I was hired at Envoy in May of 2013 and according to the gouge on here, I should be in the left seat right? WRONG! I'm in the right seat ON RESERVE!



I'm getting close to holding a line but it may be a few months or more, I really don't know. But I sure as heck am not anywhere near holding a Capt slot. If you guys really want to know, the most junior Capt on our list is an October 2007 hire. Who hasn't even started upgrade training yet!



6 year flow? Yeah right. The current guys flowing were hired in July and August of 1999. That's right, 1999!!!



I've done an exhaustive analysis of our seniority list and I just don't see any way possible that we are going to get to a 2 1/2 year upgrade anytime in the next few years. There are over 700 FO's who are going to have to upgrade to make a 2.5 year upgrade possible.



So, where are the vacancy bids? We need to get started on this list of 700 plus FO's so we can get the 2.5 going right? Plus we are going to have to get new hires in to replace those flowing right? I know that we are still shrinking but we don't have too much shrinking left before we are "adequately staffed" for the aircraft on property and deliveries.



I'm just calling BS on this whole 2.5 year upgrade. I'm not even considering the flow right now it's so far out on the horizon. I come to APC to pick up scraps of info as our union gives us zippo. All I hear on the Envoy threads is RAH RAH RAH 2.5/6. I'm telling you. It ain't true. At least right now. I don't buy these BS "projections." You can "project" all you want but I want to see the rubber meet the road in terms of a clear fleet plan, clear flying allocation and most of all...VACANCY BIDS.



I am NOT lateraling to another regional. Sure, it sounds great at Compass right now but what about next year? I'm staying here and putting in apps and exploring all possible avenues. I'm looking at Part 91, Part 135, LCC, anything in addition to my legacy apps. If I get a call for anything a smidge better, I can tell you I'm out of here. The flow ain't happening anytime soon (read 6 years) for us bottom seniority list dwellers son. Realistically, yes, I might flow in 10 years from today. Who the heck knows really? Apparently there are so few pilots left, who the heck are they going to get to fly these regional tin cans?

Originally Posted by deltajuliet

Out of curiosity, do you have 1000 SIC? I'd imagine you do, but don't want to assume if you've been on reserve the whole time. Sounds like Allegiant/Frontier/Spirit might be a reasonable goal in the short term, then leapfrog from there to a legacy.

That being said, if you're nearly to having a line, consider hanging on til you do flow, whenever that may be. Having a line makes the hell that is commuting slightly more manageable.

Originally Posted by ag386

I've been to a Spirit job fair and plan to go to the next one in January. Also I'm beating down the door at JB and Virgin. I'm also going to the next Allegiant pilot meet and greet.

Originally Posted by ag386

If I had some QOL on this beat the crap out of me reserve schedule, maybe, maybe I might be a bit more optimistic. If the company wants new hires so badly, why treat the reserves in the manner in which they do? I commute, I have to, my wife has a job that pays the bills while I make my 37/hr poverty wages. If we were to move to my base, there's no guarantee that she could get the 65k job she has that allows flexibility to pick up our kid from school.

4am starts on day one and it never fails that on the last day they magically come up with something for me to do after sitting in the pad for a few days doing nothing. I fly the last day and don't get done in time to make the commute home. It happens almost every single reserve block without fail.

I just couldn't take all this RAH RAH Envoy is great without letting you guys know that it isn't the utopia here that many make it out to be. Our union is totally worthless. They won't fix reserve and are trying to give the company a satellite base because they jumped the gun on closing it down. As if that wasn't enough of a slap in the face, now that RAH can't get the job done they want us to fill in until RAH can get their act together. Then they take it all away again. Why do you think that Satellite LOA is worded that way allowing the company to shut it down within 60 days with just a written notice?

Management is just pulling these best case scenario rosy picture numbers out of their behind and publishing them to get new hires to come here. I absolutely do NOT believe that there will be a 2.5 year upgrade here within the next 5 years. Really ever honestly. Seriously, with the rate and numbers posted on vacancy bids, can you see even 150 new CA slots each year for the next 5 years? Because that's what it would take to get to a 2.5 year upgrade.

Originally Posted by ag386

I'm over 1000 SIC now. Getting that over 2.5 years on reserve has been hard. Instructed before and did a little stint at a 135. My TT is the problem. I'm still slightly under 4k which isn't really competitive considering my only PIC is instructing plus about 500 at the 135. I've been to a Spirit job fair and plan to go to the next one in January. Also I'm beating down the door at JB and Virgin. I'm also going to the next Allegiant pilot meet and greet. I was on reserve during the last one they had. Imagine that.

Believe me, I know there are THOUSANDS that are more qualified than me out there right now and I do not feel entitled. I'm not going to stop though. Envoy has lit a fire under my rear end. I'm getting out of this four alarm dumpster fire as soon as I possibly can. Oh, and I don't believe that BS about Allegiant or other LCC being a "lateral" move. It ain't. It's a step up. Allegiant has their own set of problems, but the way I see it, I'd rather be having Allegiant problems than Envoy problems.

Originally Posted by N927EV

It's simple, really. Just quit. Everyone is hiring. Save us your *****ing.

Originally Posted by N927EV

It's simple, really. Just quit. Everyone is hiring. Save us your *****ing.

Originally Posted by FlameNSky

There are plenty of other regionals advertising less than a 2.5 yr upgrade. If you are truly so unhappy and think that PIC will be your magic ticket, why don't you make the lateral move to PSA, Go Jet or Mesa? I am sure that either of these companies could have you in class within a month.