Yes, pilots can be more selective for sure. Pilots became more selective in the late 90's early 2000s when many regional companies offered pay for training. Comair, ACA, ConEx, CommutAir all these were pay for training companies. Once the pilot pool slowed nobody went to those thus they had to drop that practice. Seems to me that what Envoy is offering isn't something bad is it?

When someone selects a regional they usually look at Bases, Contract, Upgrade Time and lastly now today a Flow Thru. Where is Envoy lacking compared to other Regionals operating the 175's? Are they not getting any pilots in class already? If that's the case then AAG will up the ante don't worry.
American will make sure Envoy succeeds. Believe me there will be a more the a few contract carriers close there doors before Envoy.

 

It is...but also envoy have a pipeline program that started about a year ago. It seems to be maturing and most of the NH are CFIs with 2 year contract.

That should be enough to keep people coming thru the doors. Also when you advertise to the CFI that "Hey you just got your interview with AA, just wait for your number. Also you can apply from the street to every airline including AA.", it is a good deal.

Of course, nobody knows if it's going to work until the next couple of years.

 

I would put a little more value in this data than in RW's predictions, with the exception of the total pilot staffing chart. I don't think Envoy is going to be able to retain 360 new hires for the year. I also believe that if the company were to offer more money, it wouldn't be for pilots already on property. They will try to entice more new hires with some sort of creative stepped bonus plan. The point being, there is absolutely no reason to come to envoy right now, unless you want to live in DFW or ORD, possibly...? There are other carriers that have bases in those locations offering shorter upgrade times with better QOL. We need to have some serious attrition for the QOL of life to get better for our own pilots. This flying 68 hour average hard line value and having 45% of your ENTIRE pilot group on reserve is RIDICULOUS! This just shows how overstaffed we have been and that the company should've furloughed. Unfortunately that would've activated the 100% flow to AA clause, something obviously AA did not want. I can see how reserve might be attractive for you if you are senior enough on reserve and want to get paid 75 hours a month for not working. This is a terrible organization to work for, they enjoy blowing smoke up the a$$#$$ of the pilot group and then laughing at them behind closed doors. Make no mistake, the management here absolutely despises their labor force. Very evident with the number of disciplinary terminations, constant contractual abuse, paired with the "fly it and grieve it," attitude.

I don't know how many times, or how many ways one could tell potential new hires to:

"STAY AWAY FROM ENVOY AIRLINES! YOU WILL HATE AND LOATHE YOURSELF FOR WORKING HERE!"

but I guess some people just have to learn the hard way...

 

2.5 years into my Envoy stint, these are my sentiments exactly. The company is totally against the pilot group and will go out of their way to make your life miserable. The flow is BS. Yes, there are people flowing now but it's just until they get the 824 out the door and Envoy is "right sized." The flow will slow or stop and the company will flat out say grieve it.

There is no reason to consider Envoy. Poster above has it right. Stay Away From ENVOY.

 

It's been said that some people learn from the mistakes of others and some people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

 

So, flying 65 hrs and getting paid 72...jummmmmm seems that someone can't live withting his/her means. I bid 65hr 14/15 days off lines, it means less work for more money. That with cancelationa somewhere in the month it's better. But hey I'm just a half full glass type of guy.

And you think every other regional is not the same? Every pilot, doesn't matter which airline, is just a number. You can quit, go somewhere and it will be the same. You can make $150k in a major and will never be enough, pilots want everything they expect and more. When something doesn't go according to our expectations is not good. So at the end the grass is always greener in other place.

People have the right to go where they want to. Now here's a question, how is your QOL better if there's no one new?

And that's why other carriers pilots don't want envoy to succeed, because we still have a big chunk of the pie. Like someone said before, other contracts carriers will go away before envoy.

 

"Show me a hot chick and I'll show you a guy tired of banging her."

Every regional has it's issues no matter how good they look. If you're not happy bail out and go to another regional. Maybe just maybe that will make you happy.

 

"It's not you, it's me."
Every regional may have issues, but we don't work at those regionals and have no basis for comparison. Many of us have, however, worked at American Eagle Airlines longer than we worked at envoy. Comparing post- to pre-bankruptcy is possible. And this management team is different than before. RW has basically declared war on the pilot group, in a way that none of his predecessors ever did.

 

Serious question. What do you think motivated RW to declare war on the pilots? Is it coming from above and he is just the one carrying out the orders?

War on the pilots is essentially what has happened. Reserve being the worst offense but also included are the base closures and crappy line builds.

 

So stop being so hypocritical, do the rest of us a favor and quit. Kind of hard to tell other pilots to stay away when you are not willing to walk away yourself. What keeps you around if you work for such a horrible company?